Zaphael

You know what? That would be the best thing that I've heard ever since this war began.

I was in basic training when OIF began, and I remember telling my bunkmates how the Americans would/could wrap this up within 2 years. I was younger, and lil less thoughtful of what would happen in the vacuum AFTER a major regional power was completely toppled.

That was 2003. With 2008 round the corner, I'm just wondering if there is a peaceful and fair conclusion in Iraq. Sometimes, it does look like American military presence itself is a cause of friction and violence. Yet, I also understand that to leave Iraq just as it is now, would be unfair to its people as well. In computer terms, its called an infinite loop.

I know little of the Liberals and Conservatives in the US. Just that their concerns are largely regarding social and economic reforms and levels government "intervention" with regards to that. I would be glad if someone can explain to me how their views can be related to the views of Americans on the Iraq situation.

Erm, for those providing your views, please indicate your nationality so I can process the views with a better understanding.

dalem

The difference on this topic between liberals and conservatives? Easy.

Liberals want to lose wars we are in, regardless of consequences, conservatives want to win them, because of the consequences.

-dale

Zaphael

I take it you're a conservative?

I hope you can provide slightly less biased explanation. =D

Bluesman

You expose your own bias by not being prepared to accept the truth of dalem's exactly true declarative statement of fact.

__________________
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell

Dwarven Pirate

I'm American, and I'm not entirely sure what the difference is. I think it's pretty much all baloney, to be honest. Something pundits made up so they don't have to bother with facts and stuff.

EDIT: Wait a sec. This about sums up the only material difference:



That and whether your homos stay in the closet or not.

Zaphael

Well, a declarative statement like that doesnt really help me understand the logic behind it. So all I'm asking is for some more detailed explanation to why Liberals prefers to lose wars regardless of consequences?

I'm no expert when it comes to American politics, but I'm trying to understand.

dalem

Yes, I consider myself rather conservative. And I gave you the answer you asked for, I never claimed non-bias.

I will expand on my answer though.

1) Today's liberals fear American power and seek to diminish it in any way possible.

2) To this end they object to America's use of war in any way that directly supports American interests. If involved in a war of our interest, they want America to lose more than they want America to win.

3) Today's conservatives generally put America's power first, and therefore seek and support victory in ANY war we are in.

-dale

Zaphael

I see...

So why do "Today's" Liberals fear American Power? By "American Power" I take it that you mean America's influence around the world, by trade, and military might?

"Today's" Liberals implying Modern Liberalism?

Thanks for the reply!

dalem

Because power means responsibility, and liberals seek to divest themselves of all responsibility.

Yep.

Yep.

Anytime, man. It's a discussion board.

-dale

texacali

JC on a crutch. Have not we given the people that populate Iraq an opportunity to create a modern state? What's the holdup? Let the mf's straighten it out. The American Armed Forces were not created to be a police force.

Bluesman

There's no hold-up, and I believe the slightest bit of historical perspective would show you just how unreasonable you're being. Do you imagine that all that's been accomplished could've and should've been done faster than it was, and that everything that hasn't been done yet should've already occurred?

As for the purpose of the US Armed Forces, they are an instrument to protect and defend American interests around the world, and they're doing an excellent job of that in Iraq even as I type this. I'd rather they weren't there, too, but I acknowledge that they SHOULD be for quite awhile longer yet.