foxhound_nn

Excuse me, I just didn't have enough of time to write in English

I ABSOLUTELY agree with ALL stated by Alex_Ivanov.
Feanor, I've already heard of this book, but the author just seems to be ignorant of simple macroeconomics. Feanor, instead of reading books of complaining people, read some of economics.

Feanor

What other ways for Russia? I'm listening.

A closed, market based, economy.

To take this path Russia needs to become a first world power with effectively economic dominance over parts of the third world via trans-national corporations. Is this where you think Putin is taking Russia?

Alex_Ivanov

You read some of my posts unattentively.


No thanks, I don't want to live in backward 3rd world country. Author urgently needs to take some decent course of economics.

We buy everything we can buy, everywhere. It is by the way good application of oil money. We convert foreign money to foreign property. Sounds like a good deal.

Feanor

Please elaborate. I don't see, in any of your posts, a description of the economic model Russia should be based on.

Adux

You mean the system which made India for 50 years one of the poorest place in the world, all the while 17 years liberalization made us a force of world reckoning,
No thanks to some commie life.



Watch Technological shares fly off the roof next year. Putin in a slow calculating way made sure Oil funds all the other sectors in Russia. Russian growth will really take off the moment all these other sectors stand on their own feet. Russia's Telecommunication network is one of the most under-developed in Europe, See the money pour from western Europe.
Russian per capita income is 9 times that of India and 4 times that of China.

Alex_Ivanov

OK. For example, I said previously "Our goal is to produce something China isn't able to produce and to develop technologies." Now let's generalise sentence a little: "Our goal is to produce something nobody is able to produce and to develop technologies". We don't have a chance to be country - factory, but we have all chances to be country - R&D center.

Feanor

You're suggesting Russia becomes a pioneer in a post-industrial economy based primarily on R&D. This would require being ahead of the rest of the world in the area.

braindead

No , but it requires inventive mind . When Sweden could not be on forefront on mining copper alone they started making Volvos and created Ikea .

If you make a closed economy , even on market principles , you end up producing (again) Moskvitch cars and Vyatka washing machines . Again you´ll end with product that is ´good enough for our people´ for only 1 reason - they have never seen anything better . How old are you Feanor ? Have you seen what the old order was or are you speaking about what you´ve read /heard , i.e. what is your hazy idea of the past ? I´m 30 and remember how the things were at the end of Sov.Onion . Have you ever seen a REAL collective farm where people got drunk 9AM and were sent on artillery tractors (K-701 Kirovets) to spill the lime to fields , crushing everything alive in soil up to 1 meters ? I don´t want to insult you but IMO you are speaking nonsense (to put it mildly).

Oh and one more thing - related to the argument about the impossibility of producing something in northern climate - take a look about the countries by living standard and see what climate regions they are .

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Feanor

Living standards and production are not directly related

And I had more though regarding what Alex Ivanov said. If you're forcing the oligarchs, who otherwise would only invest in oil and gas, to diversify the economy, then essentially your diversification is subsidized. Except instead of government subsidies, it's private sector being forced by the government to subsidize.

braindead

WHAT they produce is really related to their living standard .
Alex vs. Feanor 1:0

Feanor

You're making less sense with every post. You said to look at countries by living standards vs climate zones and somehow that meant that those countries have higher industrial potential. Now you tell me that the real issue isn't industrial potential, but rather the specific nature of what they produce.......

EDIT: And I'm still waiting for a reply on the simple fact that by forcing oligarchs to invest you are subsidizing the economy, instead of genuinely diversifying. Thus your economic base is still resource export.

Alex_Ivanov

???? Subsidizing is not an accurate word here. Let's say you just let money flow into different industries rather than just in resource mining, and thus you give those industries initial push. When large number of industries grows, and much faster than resource mining, it's called diversification. When oil is expensive, diversification can not be done without state interference and even direct participation. But I see it as a temporary measure.

What do you mean by 'genuine diversification' remains unknown to me.

So? Diversification can't be done overnight.

Feanor

So lets look. If the non-resource sectors of the economy are profitable and competible (is that a word? I'm trying to say конкурентно-способные) then the oligarchs wouldn't need government encouragement to invest. They would do it themselves, after divvying up the entire resource sector between themselves. That's the way capitalism works. However after divvying up the resource sector, they continued to fight over.... the resource sector instead of investing on any meaningful scale into other parts of the economy. Diversification of the economy began primarily with the production of consumer goods, i.e. nadstroyka, instead of a solid economic basis. And even this consumer goods production is the import of pre-made industrial parts, like semi-knocked down car kits, (because tariffs are lower for spare parts then completed products) and local assembly. Now Mr. National Leader is going to force the oligarchs to invest in a non-profitable branch of the economy. After the initial investments don't pay off, there will be two options left, invest more, essentially subsidizing the economy, or not invest more, essentially ending the whole idea of diversification by forced means. The option of a successful investment is not there, because if it was there it would have happened without government pressure (read coercion). The painful truth is that without high protective tariffs, Russia will never develop any sort of a successful economy.

EDIT: Lol you edited out the smiley while I was posting my reply

Alex_Ivanov

It's more likely 25:0 by the moment, though Feanor will never agree to such score

Feanor

I'd love to get a serious response to my last post.....