Scores of Pak soldiers desert forces

Ray · 12-07-2007, 13:03 PM

Quote:

Scores of Pak soldiers desert forces

26 Aug 2007, 0255 hrs IST,AGENCIES

ISLAMABAD: Scores of Pakistani soldiers have deserted the security forces deployed in tribal areas bordering Afghanistan, mainly because they were not sure whether fighting against their 'own people' was morally right, media reports said on Saturday.

"I did not desert the force because I feared death, but I was not sure whether the fighting in tribal district Waziristan was Islamic or not," a soldier from paramilitary Frontier Corps told the Daily Times.

The man, who recently refused to serve in tribal areas, claimed the same question was haunting many other soldiers and the confusion was stopping them from "putting up a tough fight" against the Taliban and Al-Qaida elements in the area. Pro-Taliban militiamen pulled out of peace treaties with the government after troops stormed the Lal Masjid in the capital on July 10, and launched a series of raids on security forces.

He confirmed the desertions but insisted these should be ignored as "insignificant incidents”. "Small-scale desertion takes place in any force and in any country for one reason or another," Arshad told the newspaper.

However, six soldiers from only one suburb of Peshawar, the capital of North-West Frontier Province, have deserted the Frontier Corps. The force is the first line of defence of around 90,000 troops deployed along the country’s western border against militants launching attacks at international forces in Afghanistan.

Pakistan is setting in process a plan to withdraw its army from the restive tribal areas and replace them with paramilitary forces, a news report has said.

President Pervez Musharraf told a group of parliamentarians from the Federally Administered Tribal Areas that army would be withdrawn from tribal areas after January 2008, the same newspaper reported.

"Paramilitary forces including Frontier Constabulary, Levies and Khasadars will take over the charge of tribal areas from the military, which would be withdrawn after January 2008,"sources quoted the Musharraf as saying.

Scores of Pak soldiers desert forces-Pakistan-World-The Times of India

Lemontree had quoted from Asia Times of the Pakistani military mutinying against fighting in the NWFP.

Here is another report of those of para military not ready to fight Moslems. I appreciate the overruling sentiments amongst the Moslem that Islam and Moslems can do no wrong. That is their spiritual teaching and that is their psyche. I also agree that it blinds them and make them beyond what the average intelligence would term as logic.

However, what is alarming is that if this becomes common place amongst the Pakistani unformed lot, then who will bring in some law, order and logic?

One should take it easy on Musharraf who is the lone one who has understood the US logic!

Blademaster · 12-07-2007, 14:28 PM

This shows how unprofessional the Pakistan Army has become. It does not matter whether it is moral or not to fight. You signed up for the pay, contract, etc, you go where your superiors tell you to go. Otherwise you are being insubordinated in refusing to obey orders or becoming deserters.

lwarmonger · 12-07-2007, 18:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blademaster

This shows how unprofessional the Pakistan Army has become. It does not matter whether it is moral or not to fight. You signed up for the pay, contract, etc, you go where your superiors tell you to go. Otherwise you are being insubordinated in refusing to obey orders or becoming deserters.

Does Pakistan use conscription to fill in the ranks?

Expat Canuck · 12-08-2007, 00:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blademaster

This shows how unprofessional the Pakistan Army has become. It does not matter whether it is moral or not to fight. You signed up for the pay, contract, etc, you go where your superiors tell you to go. Otherwise you are being insubordinated in refusing to obey orders or becoming deserters.

If I was ordered to do something I felt was morally wrong I would not do it. I signed up with the idea of protecting the weak and innocent not to be a hired gun. If I was ordered to fire on my own people I would not do it either.

I'm not saying these men are right but your line of reason is how the massacre in Tiananmen Square occured.

Tronic · 12-08-2007, 00:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lwarmonger

Does Pakistan use conscription to fill in the ranks?

No sir, it is an all-volunteer army.

Ray · 12-08-2007, 00:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Expat Canuck

If I was ordered to do something I felt was morally wrong I would not do it. I signed up with the idea of protecting the weak and innocent not to be a hired gun. If I was ordered to fire on my own people I would not do it either.

I'm not saying these men are right but your line of reason is how the massacre in Tiananmen Square occured.

Quote:

"Forward, the Light Brigade!"
Was there a man dismay'd?
Not tho' the soldier knew
Someone had blunder'd:
Their's not to make reply,
Their's not to reason why,
Their's but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

That is why the British could colonise half the world, if not more!

It is not for the subordinates in the military to make reply or to reason why.

In case, they feel an order is morally wrong, they have the option to resign, but not disobey!

Good armies and war are won by doing as ordered. If all were to sit on judgement, then nothing would be got done!

The use of military or going to war is the last resort and hence the final instrument of law and order or pursuing one's foreign policy. If the last resort falls to pieces, then it is the end of such a country!!!!

**Officer of Engineers** · 12-08-2007, 00:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Expat Canuck

If I was ordered to do something I felt was morally wrong I would not do it. I signed up with the idea of protecting the weak and innocent not to be a hired gun. If I was ordered to fire on my own people I would not do it either.

I'm not saying these men are right but your line of reason is how the massacre in Tiananmen Square occured.

That is why leadership is so important. The PLA's leaders instilled enough faith that the country was in peril that Tienimen happened.

The Pak leadership has thus far failed to instill the need to do what's necessary.

lwarmonger · 12-08-2007, 00:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

The Pak leadership has thus far failed to instill the need to do what's necessary.

Well sir, from the sounds of it that is because a large number of them don't like the idea of going after militant Muslims.

What I don't understand is why those Pakistani troops signed up in the first place, when most of what they knew they would be doing is policing their own population.

**Parihaka** · 12-08-2007, 00:56 AM

The end result of course is that the Waziristans and NWFP are now outside Pakistans control but Pakistan still refuses the notion of other troops going in there because of the blow to Pakistans ego

WhamBam · 12-08-2007, 02:16 AM

Or may be most Pakistanis see this as a short term problem and not really their problem. Just keep things from boiling over in the short term.

I think most of them are convinced that once the west inevitably loses its attention span there and goes back home, things will be hunky dory again back to the good old days of Taliban and strategic depth and terrorist camps used to mostly bleed India but also needle the other enemies of Islam.

This time they may even get smart and keep the provocation just below the level which warrants a big western response.

**Parihaka** · 12-08-2007, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhamBam

This time they may even get smart and keep the provocation just below the level which warrants a big western response.

If you're referring to the irhabi, they're just not that smart.

Deltacamelately · 12-08-2007, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Expat Canuck

If I was ordered to do something I felt was morally wrong I would not do it. I signed up with the idea of protecting the weak and innocent not to be a hired gun. If I was ordered to fire on my own people I would not do it either.

I'm not saying these men are right but your line of reason is how the massacre in Tiananmen Square occured.

Tianamen happened because the PLA was commited to prevent the existing system from being brought down. Very typical of a professional army commited towards its national establishment. We as well as most professional forces have two basic tenants in our school of thought...Command and Control. Everybody can't start calling the shots. Period.

12-08-2007, 00:56 AM	#9 (permalink)
Parihaka Moderator Join Date: 11-10-04 Location: Te Ika a Maui Posts: 9,465 Country:	The end result of course is that the Waziristans and NWFP are now outside Pakistans control but Pakistan still refuses the notion of other troops going in there because of the blow to Pakistans ego __________________ In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility. Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz

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12-07-2007, 14:28 PM	#2 (permalink)
Blademaster Military Enthusiast *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-15-03 Posts: 3,050	This shows how unprofessional the Pakistan Army has become. It does not matter whether it is moral or not to fight. You signed up for the pay, contract, etc, you go where your superiors tell you to go. Otherwise you are being insubordinated in refusing to obey orders or becoming deserters.

12-08-2007, 02:16 AM	#10 (permalink)
WhamBam Contributor Join Date: 02-27-07 Location: India Posts: 628 Country:	Or may be most Pakistanis see this as a short term problem and not really their problem. Just keep things from boiling over in the short term. I think most of them are convinced that once the west inevitably loses its attention span there and goes back home, things will be hunky dory again back to the good old days of Taliban and strategic depth and terrorist camps used to mostly bleed India but also needle the other enemies of Islam. This time they may even get smart and keep the provocation just below the level which warrants a big western response.

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