Fraud, intimidation and bribery as Putin prepares for victory - Page 3

Feanor · 12-03-2007, 06:47 AM

Whether he is genuinely good for Russia or not is disputable, and given the ''irregularities'' reported during the election an error margin of 10% is not out of bounds.

Ray · 12-03-2007, 06:49 AM

Quote:

without wanting to overgeneralize the Russians, they have an appreciation for a leader who is a strongman that provides security and stability, even if they are somewhat autocratic.

Very apt description of the Russian psyche.

texacali · 12-03-2007, 11:21 AM

He also has restored national pride.

Feanor · 12-03-2007, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texacali

He also has restored national pride.

Yes, now how about putting some food on the table?

foxhound_nn · 12-03-2007, 17:25 PM

What the **** was written in the first post of this thread? I've read enough of the western press, almost all of it is a ravings of a madman! Only NYT wrote more or less objective information!

Be realistic! I VOTED HERE, I SPOKE WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE! NOONE WAS FORCED TO VOTE FOR "UNITED RUSSIA"!
Moreover, it was of course a secret ballot, so how do you think, is anybody able to find out how somebody has voted? In order to fire all these men according to the western press? wtf?

After the election only Communistic party (about 10%) and some diminutive "parties" (each accounts on about 1%) have said that election was unfair! They just have nothing to say! Even west-oriented (but not sponsored by the west) party "Grazhdanskaya Sila" (about 1%) agreed that election was fair and free!

About OSCE: they were here and all observers were satisfied by the way election was conducted, but only during the election. But when, absolutely without any evidences they reported that election was unfair! Even mr Mironov, the leader of almost lost party "Spravedlivaya Rossiya", said that OSCE came to these desicion beforehand, just because their main sponsor (read: the US) asked to do this!

A now, i have to admit some facts:
1) Really, United Russia was strongly reccomended by almost all political and non-political persons. But why not? If they really think that this party is the best? So this fact can't be assessed as undemocratic
2) Yes, there was some cases (occasional) when some stupid director of some small factory or university threatened voters. But it was their own foolishness, they just wanted to be distinguished by athourities, to flatter themselves, all these directors were eventually punished! And once again, noone is able to find out how somebody has voted
So this fact just can't distort the figures

Kansas Bear · 12-03-2007, 23:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feanor

Yes, now how about putting some food on the table?

If Putin needs money, he can always start marketing Polonium!!

Feanor · 12-04-2007, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kansas Bear

If Putin needs money, he can always start marketing Polonium!!

Have a pest problem? Polonium will shut them up for good

But seriously foxhound could you present some evidence that the directors were (I'm assuming you meant will be) eventually punished.

foxhound_nn · 12-04-2007, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feanor

Have a pest problem? Polonium will shut them up for good

But seriously foxhound could you present some evidence that the directors were (I'm assuming you meant will be) eventually punished.

some were before election and some will be

Feanor · 12-04-2007, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxhound_nn

some were before election and some will be

Very nice. Now about that evidence....... surely a director of a government plant getting fired for trying to rig elections would be in the news, especially if it's a disturbing nation-wide trend.

Ray · 12-04-2007, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Party’s Triumph Raises Question of Putin’s Plans

By CLIFFORD J. LEVY
Published: December 3, 2007

MOSCOW, Dec. 2 —With President Vladimir V. Putin’s opponents persistently hobbled by the Kremlin, his party swept Sunday to the kind of landslide long predicted for the parliamentary elections. Yet the results, while a triumph for Mr. Putin, also usher in a new era of political instability for Russia.

Even as Mr. Putin has been accumulating power and popularity, he has been stirring deep uncertainty about his intentions, making it all but impossible to answer a fundamental question about Russia’s future: Come next spring, who will be in charge?

Yielding to the constitutional limit of two consecutive terms, Mr. Putin has said he will not be a candidate for president in March. But he has declared that he will retain significant influence, whether as prime minister, leader of his party, United Russia, or a vague role described here as “father of the nation.........

The leadership uncertainty also presents a challenge not only to President Bush but whoever follows him at the White House. Mr. Bush’s administration already has an increasingly tense relationship with Mr. Putin because of his growing assertiveness and Russia’s rising economic power from its vast oil wealth.

For hundreds of years, authority in Russia has emanated from the top, whether it be the czar, the Communist Party general secretary or the Russian president. Now people are wondering who should receive their fealty: Mr. Putin or the person who is to take his place inside the Kremlin.

More at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/03/wo...ld&oref=slogin

Will there be a political uncertainty?

Alex_Ivanov · 12-04-2007, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feanor

Yes, now how about putting some food on the table?

Come on, Feanor, it is already there.

foxhound_nn · 12-04-2007, 09:03 AM

Feanor, i'll find it, media in Russia (even our media!) described such situation several times. I suppose you understand, that to find information that was on TV about two weeks ago is difficult enough. So I'll find some newspapers.

But meanwhile, think about, do you really think that Russian media would describe such situations and call everybody to notify about such cases to CEC, if it was not only directors' stupidity but Putin's policy?

And Feanor, if you want, you can try to get know, what sources the Guardian has and who particularly forced voters, and i'll say you that punishment they met. The western press driscribed only half of all situations: "Somebody forced voters to... in some factory", but without information about who it was and more importantly without information about what legal actions against these directors were eventually initiated.

And the last. You live in America! You should know what democracy is! And what presumption of innocence is. So why should I prove that election was fair, when the western press argue without any evidences of the reverse? But i'll find you some sources.

foxhound_nn · 12-08-2007, 15:02 PM

...to all interested in our (with Feanor) discussion: we considered it in private messages

Dreadnought · 12-11-2007, 10:23 AM

I was very happy to see Putin name his successor. This puts a face to the opposition from America's standpoint. The best part is now the American people can put a face on Russia's future which will intern help us show that only very FEW canidates for the U.S. will be suited for the Presidency.

Thanks guys you just helped us eliminate the ones we know are to weak to run this country. Cheers!

Feanor · 12-11-2007, 12:02 PM

It is just me or did that post not make sense?

12-11-2007, 10:23 AM	#44 (permalink)
Dreadnought *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 05-12-05 Posts: 5,319 Country:	I was very happy to see Putin name his successor. This puts a face to the opposition from America's standpoint. The best part is now the American people can put a face on Russia's future which will intern help us show that only very FEW canidates for the U.S. will be suited for the Presidency. Thanks guys you just helped us eliminate the ones we know are to weak to run this country. Cheers! __________________ Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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12-03-2007, 06:47 AM	#31 (permalink)
Feanor Banished Join Date: 06-12-07 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,385 Country:	Whether he is genuinely good for Russia or not is disputable, and given the ''irregularities'' reported during the election an error margin of 10% is not out of bounds.

12-03-2007, 11:21 AM	#33 (permalink)
texacali Regular Join Date: 06-19-07 Location: breckenridge, texas Posts: 117 Country:	He also has restored national pride.

12-03-2007, 17:25 PM	#35 (permalink)
foxhound_nn Banished Join Date: 11-15-07 Location: Russia, Nizhny Novgorod Posts: 109 Country:	What the **** was written in the first post of this thread? I've read enough of the western press, almost all of it is a ravings of a madman! Only NYT wrote more or less objective information! Be realistic! I VOTED HERE, I SPOKE WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE! NOONE WAS FORCED TO VOTE FOR "UNITED RUSSIA"! Moreover, it was of course a secret ballot, so how do you think, is anybody able to find out how somebody has voted? In order to fire all these men according to the western press? wtf? After the election only Communistic party (about 10%) and some diminutive "parties" (each accounts on about 1%) have said that election was unfair! They just have nothing to say! Even west-oriented (but not sponsored by the west) party "Grazhdanskaya Sila" (about 1%) agreed that election was fair and free! About OSCE: they were here and all observers were satisfied by the way election was conducted, but only during the election. But when, absolutely without any evidences they reported that election was unfair! Even mr Mironov, the leader of almost lost party "Spravedlivaya Rossiya", said that OSCE came to these desicion beforehand, just because their main sponsor (read: the US) asked to do this! A now, i have to admit some facts: 1) Really, United Russia was strongly reccomended by almost all political and non-political persons. But why not? If they really think that this party is the best? So this fact can't be assessed as undemocratic 2) Yes, there was some cases (occasional) when some stupid director of some small factory or university threatened voters. But it was their own foolishness, they just wanted to be distinguished by athourities, to flatter themselves, all these directors were eventually punished! And once again, noone is able to find out how somebody has voted So this fact just can't distort the figures

12-04-2007, 09:03 AM	#42 (permalink)
foxhound_nn Banished Join Date: 11-15-07 Location: Russia, Nizhny Novgorod Posts: 109 Country:	Feanor, i'll find it, media in Russia (even our media!) described such situation several times. I suppose you understand, that to find information that was on TV about two weeks ago is difficult enough. So I'll find some newspapers. But meanwhile, think about, do you really think that Russian media would describe such situations and call everybody to notify about such cases to CEC, if it was not only directors' stupidity but Putin's policy? And Feanor, if you want, you can try to get know, what sources the Guardian has and who particularly forced voters, and i'll say you that punishment they met. The western press driscribed only half of all situations: "Somebody forced voters to... in some factory", but without information about who it was and more importantly without information about what legal actions against these directors were eventually initiated. And the last. You live in America! You should know what democracy is! And what presumption of innocence is. So why should I prove that election was fair, when the western press argue without any evidences of the reverse? But i'll find you some sources.

12-08-2007, 15:02 PM	#43 (permalink)
foxhound_nn Banished Join Date: 11-15-07 Location: Russia, Nizhny Novgorod Posts: 109 Country:	...to all interested in our (with Feanor) discussion: we considered it in private messages

12-11-2007, 12:02 PM	#45 (permalink)
Feanor Banished Join Date: 06-12-07 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,385 Country:	It is just me or did that post not make sense?

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