TopHatter

Yes it is. The others are from the Prague Spring.
The last one naturally needs no explanation.

medvedev

I do think humans need some freedom for creativity but some control for those weaker or ill etc.
It is just boring middle way politics like Bob Geldof said "lot's of boring debates and comprimise with little moves forward each time."
I mean, the US and Pinnochet? The US and Cuba trading? The US needs to become more worldly in my opinion and not so dogmatic as Americans seem to not be represented fully.
I think possibly the UK where I live has the best example of a working fair system with good business and social support together and our Prime Minister was once considered a lefty. But times move on and whether you like it or not politics requires small moves and compromise.
The war in Iraq was a leaders (Blair) choice of what he thought was right and that is just such a long guess. I mean, he brought peace to Northern Ireland after long long compromise and debate. But fighting never really improved life for any society. Good debate and goverments that deal with issues as they arise without any particular slant always governing their choices. We have a London Mayor Ken Livingstone once considered a far lefty but he actually today does whatever he thinks is right both sometimes backing one group and other times backing another and that is life and normal as we move forward and he is very popular with people.
The middle way is what humans crave I think not far right US greed or far left paranoid control. Isn't it a fact that people just want a nice meal, maybe a drink or a tipple and for their kids to learn and be happy and one day have kids of their own? Isn't that human's altogether? To live in a country that tourist's visit and has peace and business small and large can tarde and buy nice things?
Isolate the extremists and we may have more peace.
I am sentimental at the moment because it is Christmas day so happy Chrismas everyone this is a great forum.
The MIDDLE WAY!

glyn

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Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.

Kansas Bear

On the first day of Christmas the Soviets sent to me...

An Armored division parked in my street.

medvedev

I am from London now living on the Kent coast with Irish parents and am a West Ham fan!
I know Cornwall well as we go to festivals down there.
medvedev is just a user name like the others.
I am a UK citizen if you thought I was talking as an immigrant these are just my opinions.
I do reckon Brown may have bulked up the economy on immigrant jobs in hospitals and hotels and there may not be housing later. He looks good on the economy but there have been voices about the policy creating a recession due to it's short term nature.
But I do support Labour so long as they keep middle ground and not become looney left. I am very interested in politics and love all the political opinion and my brother stood for Labour as a councillor last locals.
I just don't like all that conspiracy crap like 9/11 nonsense you hear.
This forum makes good debate that's why I joined when I found it the other day.
Hope that clears it up glyn, have a good one down there!
Like a good debate.

entropy

Anastas Mikoyan survived.

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If memory serves...

medvedev

I suppose these were the old day's with old ideas. I mean didn't parents and teachers have more authority too in society?
Communism was an attempt to better peoples lives by academics meaning well but perhaps abused by politicians and life has a way of making some people power hungry and determined get to power. Would anyone really want to take power with all the abuse they get and hard work? I am talking about today not in the past. Many Brits felt Thatcher was mad (and still do!)and so determined like a nutter but others think she done a good job and encouraged peoples need to create and build and find new ideas and compete healthy to make progress. Others believe she didn't care about large groups like the miners and their communities that were left abandoned after generations of them had a hard job and were hard working and decent. Mining is literally back breaking work full of risks and death occurs a lot. But some feel Thatcher needed to move on as it wasn't profitable. I really don't know what I feel about it. I do know that regardless we have to deal with what we now have and move on from there no matter how much we like or dislike it.
I feel that countries like Russia lost so many people in the war to help win it and as kids we were taught the russians don't always get enough credit for the amount of loss they took to their country and how hard it was in the cold snow and the sacrifices the Russian people made like real men and they are such a geographically big country that they needed some way of controlling and building again and that America and the UK feared Russian attacks with stories about how they could destroy us in hours (scaremongering) and only in the 90's did we learn that Russian kids were at the time also thinking America would destroy them and their moms and dads in minutes possibly.
That's why I hope my generation decides to make and effort to get on. Peace in Northern Ireland!!! Aint that great?
It was done by debate and debate and comprimise and debate etc etc. That is because people generally want peace.
I feel the fight with capitalsm and communism was a bit like a punch up between two young men who later become friends as they grow up on account of the kids!!
Communism in Cuba worked quite well but it is geographically smaller so easier and warmer.
I think the world has grown up a bit and I think life will get better for everyone unlike doom and gloom merchants. It is only a full generation we have tele and communications and this has put a stop to a lot of ignorance among the masses and I think the world will get better as we go on.
Both communisn and capitalism encouraged science because science makes life better for everyone with better ways and more comfortable lifes like heating and running water so communism helped the people a fair bit. Also a very divided society cretaes problems if some don't have basics like heat and water and food. At school it is best to have uniforms as then kids don't feel shabby or others have great clothes. That idea is good to focus on unity and learning. But so is teirs in school to let quicker kids get a real workout and slower kids get to a level of competency. See the paralells? Anyone who argues for one extreme view or the other and doesn't bend and move is only a stubborn silly person. An old saying about a willow tree that never broke in the gales and wind because it swayed while the stubborn oak fell.
Another issue about communism is regarding religion and I don't know alot about that so can't comment. I think religion helps people to have faith and live good lives and millions the world over live this way and have done since they plowed the fleids many centuries ago.
My own opinion is that noone knows the facts but we all like to believe but I don't really think people should feel too focused on God or religion but simply live a good life and help people and that seems good enough for most of the texts I read. All religions in their actual texts are very heartwarming and kind and uplifting when you actually read them but I am not too sure what institutions make them into. All of texts I read just preach peace and try to help people and God will know who's been a naughty boy so that is that.
That's why I believe in God but I think God understands you know. He see's us as we see little kids or pets, not their fault as they are naive but trying.
I mean, do you think Marx was a vindictive man nasty? No he was just trying to discover ways to improve peoples lives. Wasn't Charles Dickens trying improve the lot of the poor with his writing about the industrial age?
Remember there is enough food to go around and we destroy alot of it. An old Irish man said to me a while ago, "it doesn't matter what system you live under so long as you can have a pint or two, maybe a little bet on a horse have a good meal and bit of a cuddle and fun with the wife. That's all we need in life."
I say again the MIDDLE GROUND. Compromise and debate. Northern Ireland did it. Treat people fairly in life let them say their bit and don't antagonise them and you get peace.
Happy Christmas and New Year EVERYONE and my advice is "don't eat too much of the starter or you'll not enjoy the main course as much" as I always forget each year.

Feanor

The middle way is caving in to humanities natural tendencies. Natural patterns tend to work in a cycle. Every civilization, every species, sooner or later passes it's peak and begins to collapse. If we allow humanity to run it's natural course, then humanity, in it's own turn, will disappear eventually.

medvedev

You may be right. Although these end of the world types have always been around. I read a book about great scares in England in the middle ages and prophesies were always been made at new years eves and throughout the middle ages about end of the world and life always went on.
Caving into humanity is what we want isn't it? We are humane as humans. Think about it, we build cities, roads, fly planes all through working together and we are caring people who want peace and stability as humans.
Politically I mean that governments should help control society for crime and anti social behaviour and look after the ill and mentally incapable but you need business to inspire those to create who can. Incentives but with fair controls. It isn't easy like Geldof said but it is rewarding for politicians to debate over time and get a better life for their people while not taking from others. It worked in Northern Ireland but I don't know how much coverage our news gets in other countries. It looked like it never would but it did because the people just wanted peace for their community to live and work and play. If your point was that society is doomed I don't agree because I think humans are ever resourceful and always find answers working together.
That's why I don't have rigid political stances as each case should be on it's merits today. I also don't run down any system or theory as they all have their merits and faults. I am actually hopeful that new media communication will enlighten many more people and connect people and the world will improve as a result. We may become extinct in the far future but in the far future they'll solve all these old climate problems I reckon.
I am an optimist and say go invent...create....just treat others as you would expect them to treat you.
Happy Christmas to you all too.

Dwarven Pirate

I guess you mean if we dont kill every single one of us via war?

(Was going to point out that every authoritarian regime treats its dissidents harshly, regardless of it's economic system, so blaming communism is incorrect, but what is the point... I concede.)

Feanor

No. We won't kill one another through war. History has very solid patterns that, while they're hard to see when you're living them, are easily distinguishable. Communism was an attempt to break free of the cyclical flow of events. I'm afraid that if humanity doesn't break free of the cyclical flow of events, we will, one day, disappear slowly, becoming more and more impotent (not physically but as a civilization) until eventually something younger and stronger appears and makes us obsolete.

TopHatter

What, by imposing yet another cyclical flow of events on billions of it's hapless citizens??

Kansas Bear

Where was this??

Dwarven Pirate

Interesting thought. Very russian thought - Tolstoy would write a novel around it today. I don't agree though. I think history's replacements for America are being groomed now in China, I think. Western culture may be degenerate, but it doesn't follow that the next empire's cannot be ascendant.