Bluesman

How many times have we put up with over-educated inferiors like this? How many times have they come sashaying through our door and pronounced us inferior to themselves? And how many of them have been insufferable fools, tools, trolls and the same sniffy, snide, superiority acts that have become so tiresome to the long-time members that actually HAVE proven an ability to engage on ideas and concepts, and that have no need to prove their 'linear reasoning' qualifications, or their 'critical thinking' abilities (a favorite slur of the academics and students that imagine themselves in some special category of awareness and consciousness that all us rubes and hayseeds can't seem to manage)?

Well, here's another, and it would seem they're as common as mud, and usually no more interesting. Hopefully, he'll push along soon, too, and leave us savages to our benighted superstitions and ignorance.

But it may be fun to gut this loser one more time, so...

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"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell

JAD_333

Oh, just jump in blindly like you have up to now.

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To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education. (Plato)

Parihaka

And on this forum we expect a high standard of debate.
Abusive trolling is not excused by generalising it.
If you have a point to make about a specific poster or their opinion then do so, if you don't, stay off the thread and stop trolling.

__________________
In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz

Bluesman

Take your smugness down the road, jag-off, we're not buying what you're selling. Your intellect is in no sense superior to the people you're insulting, so jam it and limp away. We won't miss you.

dalem has already dealt with this, but I'd like to add a mention that you've made a common mistake that a poor analyst is prone to: you believe that the way nations treat with each other is the same way interpersonal relationships work, which is nonsense that, while appealing to a mind that isn't used to dealing in reality and seeks instead to attempt to understand the world in terms they WISH were extant, simply doesn't obtain. 'Hypocrisy' is a HUMAN trait; perhaps you meant 'inconsistancy', and even THEN, when a nation does the completely understandable thing and looks to its own interests, it's hardly inconsistent with supporting a friend, and reviling an enemy, no matter whether their Fuerher was elected or not.

WABbits, THIS is the guy I've been talking about: a person that stakes out a position that condemns his own country, with absolutely NO sense of perspective. Notice that any American military intervention is automatically condemned; there's never any positive outcome that is contemplated or acknowledged. No people were freed, nor fed, nor defended. Apparently, we're just another conquest-mined imperialistic exploiters of peoples of color.

Very few things in this world are perfect, and people are less so. But Professor Pablo here is a perfect example of the mind of a lefty. A terrific representative of an Ivory Tower mind. Those aren't compliments, either. But there's more to the post, and I'm dawdling here, where the possibilities are just like low-hanging fruit. I'll leave this playground for another gem of his steaming output...

It is your position, then, that Royal France is the entity that has been so maddeningly obstreperous in the early 21st Century? And Revolutionary America, pre-Constitution, the same country that made that alliance of convenience over 200 years ago, is the same country that's getting double-crossed over Iraq in 2003?

Your arguments are weaker than New England hot sauce.

Well. Thanks for the alternative history lesson, but that was total ********. There were no German troops there for the precise reason that France had switched to the German's side, and were being counted on to secure their rear. What fools the Germans were to imagine that the French would keep faith with them any better than they did when they surrendered to the Germans with an entire British Army in their country, but couldn';t even be bothered to pick up the phone and call them to let 'em know they'd capitulated.

You want to defend a French record of fidelity during WWII? You sure got more guts than brains.

I think you'll find that the treaties were scrupulously followed in the withdrawal from same. A treaty is 'repudiated', or more accurately, is ABROGATED, when one or more parties break the terms of the treaty. Bush has never done this, with ANY treaty, and you can look it up, if you've got a mind that can handle objectivity.

And all of us here are certainly glad that you're not in authroity over foreign policy, or you'd be begging North Korea for permission to let the Pacific Fleet leave Pearl Harbor. LEADERS establish a direction and if it's worthy, others follow. Establishing a policy that others will approve of in the hope that they'll support it is FOLLOWERSHIP.

Name ten, General Pablo.

Ah, o we expand it at America's whim, and no other members get a vote, and apparently, the new applicants are somehow coerced into doing what is in no way benficial to them, is that what you're saying?

You're not really very good at this 'analysis' thang, are you?

The 'occupation' of Germany enedd rather a long time ago, genius. Do you imagine that the Germans had no interest in our stationing troops there, and it was against their objections and interests? Where are you from, Mars?

Do you suppose the Koreans may have anything to say about the matter? Perhaps THEY would have a smidge of difficulty papering over their niggling little differences, like, oh, let's see...EVERY SINGLE LITTLE THING ABOUT EACH OTHERS' EXISTENCE?

Apparently, lawyers are in favor of premeditated murder, rape, arson, treason, forgery, and every other single offense in the US Criminal Code, then.

What we have a problem with is the mindless absolutism of people like yourself, who would NOT have done anything to KSM that hadn't had any success in the previous months before he was waterboarded, and gave in within minutes, and provided information that saved innumerable Americans' lives.

And you'd let 'em die. Sleep well, Mr. Morality.

It has been, and I know the people that did the evals. That's who advised ME.

Yeah, I think I get the concept.

Excpt that it drops bombs. Kills enemies. At anyplace on the face of the Earth.

DYESS, and I believe you'll find some chunks of the Taliban and the Republican Guard who can tell you what a poor judge of military capability you are, and how bad your grasp of recent history is. They can't actually SPEAK to you, but I believe if you had an encounter with them, even you may get the point.

No, you're not, you hypocrite. (See, THAT is when 'hypocrisy' IS the right word to use.)

Parihaka

Amongst the many razor-sharp strokes of cruel reason over his adolescent dogma, that one must have hurt the most of all

gunnut

Typical argument from a liberal. You put the other side on the defensive by calling them stupid without calling them stupid. The favored phrase for the past few years had been "critical thinking." Now it's "linear reasoning."

We may not have strong "linear reasoning" for your taste. You obviously lack "critical thinking."

Typical Clintonesque response. You say a bunch of things without saying anything specific.

I explained already. You lacked "critical thinking" ability to understand my reasoning.

We accept it. We don't have to like it. Palestinians have the freedom to elect Hamas. We have the freedom to not give them anything. There's no rule that says they cannot elect Hamas. There's no rule that says we have to like them.

When did we not accept Hamas? We accepted the election results. We don't like it so we don't support it. You seemed to mistaken the meaning of "accept" and "support."

I accept the democrats are in charge of California. I do not support the democrats in charge of California. See the difference?

Hamas and Fatah had a power sharing deal. They couldn't work it out so Hamas forcibly removed Fatah. Did you catch that little happening? That's when we stopped recognizing Hamas. They broke the rule first by forcibly remove their political rivals.

OK I stopped reading because you just rattled off a bunch of nations and I can't guess what specifically you mean.

You're right. We would not exist without France's help early in the Independence War. Much like any other nation, they didn't do it out of the love for us. They did it to advance their national interest. Would you like to apply your high moral standards on France as well?

Vichy France was part of the Nazi empire. It was set up by the Nazis. It was not democratically elected as you seemed so focused on. We fought with Free French forces to liberate France.

The treaty was between the US and USSR/Russia. Our missile defense was set up against Iran. Not Russia.

And if everyone else cowers in fear then what? You cower in fear too? If everyone on your street thinks slavery is OK you would think so too?

Applying your stadard of "getting support" for our ideas and not go it alone, do you support marriage between homosexuals in this country? Over 70% of the population don't support it. I guess you will have to accept that. Do you support driver's licenses for illegals? Overwhelming majority of the population don't support it. I guess you will happily accept that outcome.

That I agree. Why expand NATO? I don't have an opinion on this issue.

We would like to end the Korean War. Kim doesn't. And I agree that we should involve Japan more in Asian afairs. Except no one in Asia likes Japan. They trust us more. I understand that's a very difficult concept for you to grasp.

If you don't have a definition, then you're just naive.

So still no definition. No definition means you can call anything that annoys you "torture."

I think you are a torture on me.

Don't know about that.

What are you talking about? B-1 is the premiere conventional bomber in our inventory. Just because the MSM doesn't report what they do doesn't mean they are gathering dust.

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"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

dalem

In my reply about the B1 I failed to acknowledge their role in OIF - my bad. I have earned a mil-geek demerit I'm sure.

-dale

JAD_333

This one out of a very good set of replies made me laugh most. Well done.

JohnFlint1985

It is my own personal observation but anyways.
France is like an old actress that used to be beautiful and had face and figure to die for. Others were waiting in line to be her friend. She was a star of world propositions and many listened to her and followed her example.
But... But today she is an old lady, without teeth, looks, brains and finally she is in the wheel chair. But she still wants to pretend that nothing has changed and world still revolves around her.

I am sorry to say it but France stopped being Great at the moment Hitler had his military parade under the Arc of Triumph. And even De Gaulle was not able to restore it's greatness - it is only skin deep today.

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"We Shall Never Surrender" Winston Churchill

gunnut

Great analogy...albeit very...visual...ly disturbing...

I felt for a long time that France is just trying to recapture some of the old time glory days when France was a world power and French was spoken in many places on this earth and the Franc was a powerful currency.

France developed its own nuclear triad to prove that it is still an independent power to be reckoned with.

France continues to operate aircraft carrier(s) to prove that it is still has a powerful navy, a very colonial symbol.

France bullies the EU and tried very hard to create a counterweight to US in the post-cold war era.

France almost single-handedly muscled Airbus into developing the A380 to compete with the 747. A380 is just a tad bigger than the 747 to show the world France can still build something big and grand.

All in all France exhibits many traits of "little man symdrome."

glyn

[quote=gunnut;430874]

France developed its own nuclear triad to prove that it is still an independent power to be reckoned with.

As have others since.

France continues to operate aircraft carrier(s) to prove that it is still has a powerful navy, a very colonial symbol.

The argument can be used against those nations with aircraft carriers - which includes the United States as the biggest operator of all.


All in all France exhibits many traits of "little man symdrome."


Unfair. Boney hasn't been around for nearly 200 years.

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Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.

nizawa

Mr Sarkozy is good for France and the rest of the world, if face value
can be taken. Any way what he thinks about Iran is more realistic.

Bluesman

Exactly, and I share that guarded optimism. IF he is what we think...

Dreadnought

IMO History records that France was good to the U.S. during Revolutionary times however France chose where and when to employ that tactic on the high seas. The idea that France saved the Revolutionary war for the colonists is not so true. France blockaded for us but France also turned face when it came to the Continental Navy being in European waters and there are many examples available for when France chose not to favor the US and favored Britian during these times instead (book:History of the USN hardbound addition) that details some of these times.

Further, many things have transpired between France and the U.S. before the outbreak of WWII and yet the allies (all not just US) came to France's aid to rescue them and Europe from the Nazi's. We have had our ups and downs with France especially in the political forums during numerous NATO operations and others. This man seems to be a different breed.

Perhaps maybe its time for both sides to stop counting favors for each side and allow by gones to be by gones. Who knows it just may set an example for the rest to follow.

I must admit though I have not taken much time in the past for France's previous Prime Ministers and rulers. But from what I have seen about Sarcozy I get a pretty good feeling that he may be very different from its rulers the past.

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Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

gunnut