platinum786

Btw, i am not saying that we have no secatarian problems, what i'm saying is the people who commit this violence are dedicated extremists who's lives revovle around killing others.

We don't all finish work on a Friday evening and go off to kill each other on the weekend folks.....honest.

Ray

What is the representation of the MMA in the Parliament?

What their representation state wise vs the total seats from that state.

Isn't it that they wer in the running to form the govt and Musharraf pulled the carpet under their feet and so the ruling lot is known as the King's Party?

Of course what we learn as outsiders is from the media, both the print and the electronic and I concede that would be hyped as is done everywhere.

platinum786

they where very much in the running to win, Mushy did pull the carpet, by pulling together old heads to form a winning side.

they where a popular protest vote post 9-11.

tarek

Welcome to the taliban's Pakistan, When will American take note?

Religious parties to punish revellers


By Sadia Qasim Shah

PESHAWAR, Dec 30: Vigilantes of religio-political parties have announced they are determined to stop revelry on the new year eve.

Groups of stick-wielding activists of the ruling Muttahida Majlis-i-Aman will roam the streets of Peshawar to thwart any attempt at celebrating the advent of the new year, Haji Ihsanul Haq, the secretary-general of the six-party alliance in Peshawar, told Dawn.

Three committees comprising ten members each had been formed to scout the city, cantonment and rural Peshawar and inform police of any unethical activity, Mr Haq said. "Our force will be ready camping at two mosques in Peshawar City and the University Town and will act on reports provided by our own intelligence," the JUI district leader said.

"And I assure you we have plenty of force. Madressahs are full of them," he said. He added that the committees would closely liase with police in the district and the SPs in city, cantonment and rural Peshawar.

"If police do not act on our information, then we will press our force into action," he warned. The police said they had assured the vigilantes the government would do their utmost to stop the celebration which the religious parties believed was un-Islamic and promoted vice.

"We have done our spadework and summoned owners of various hotels in Peshawar to warn them from holding any parties," SP Cantonment Awal Khan told Dawn.

Mr Haq said the police on their initiative had called owners and operators of the city's 12 upscale hotels, including the lone five-star hotel, to forbid them against organizing any new year parties. The SP Cantonment said the police was closely coordinating with the MMA leaders in Peshawar to ensure that no parties were held.

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when they make no laws but what they themselves and their posterity must be subject to; when they can give no money, but what they must pay their share of; when they can do no mischief, but what must fall upon their own heads in common with their countrymen; their principals may expect then good laws, little mischief, and much frugality

platinum786

Didn't they threaten some army xmas party last year?!

Serves the people right, i for one am immensly pleased when tehy do stupid sh!t like this....i'd like them to cross even more lines, close music stores etc....go even more taliban.

Why?....no i've not turned into a wahhabi......it serves the fools who voted for them right.

Then on the other hand i feel sorry for people who voted them as a protest vote.

They are digging thier own grave....Pakistani public won't tolerate this, and will prove so in an election booth.

If we had an election today......PPP would run rampant.

tarek

Musharraf's Pakistan continues to give aid and abett the Taliban and to allow them to use Pakistan to attack American forces in Afghanistan, is reality other than this?



Yasir named new Taliban spokesman

By Rahimullah Yusufzai

PESHAWAR: The Taliban have appointed a new principal spokesman with the aim to pursue an aggressive media campaign to tell to their version of events in Afghanistan.

The new appointee is Mohammad Yasir, who will be head of the Taliban information and cultural commission and their main spokesman. He will be assisted by Latifullah Hakimi, who was already operating clandestinely as one of the Taliban spokesmen.

Yasir has replaced Hamid Agha, who will continue to function as member of the Taliban information and cultural commission.

Talking to The News from an undisclosed location, Yasir invited journalists to accompany Taliban fighters during their guerilla operations in Afghanistan. He also expressed his willingness to grant television interviews and make himself accessible to genuine mediapersons. It may be mentioned that the Taliban during their six-year rule had banned taking of pictures of living creatures and generally shunned television crews.

Yasir was in the past affiliated with Afghan mujahideen leader Prof Sayyaf’s Ittehad-i-Islami party. When asked as to why he quit the party, he said Prof Sayyaf’s decision to support the US military invasion of Afghanistan had prompted him to part ways with him. He said he opted to join the Taliban after their leader Mulla Mohammad Omar sacrificed his rule and risked his life by refusing to hand over Osama bin Laden to the US. "Mulla Omar’s courage and steadfastness has impressed me and many others. He is a man of principle and worthy of our support," he argued. In reply to a question whether his decision to join the Taliban was on account of a growing alliance between former mujahideen like him and the Taliban, Yasir said all those opposed to foreign occupation of Afghanistan should gather courage and follow the Taliban leadership in fighting the Americans and their allies.

Ray

If the Muttahida Majlis-i-Aman prevent Christmas celebrations does that mean that the Christians in Pakistan are also barred from celebrating the birth of Jesus, the Messiah?

And yet there is such a hue and cry over the banning of head scarfs in school alone. One could still wear in private life.

This type of inane display of 'I am more loyal to Allah than you' mindset will just ensure that others will also get more radicalised.

There are many on this board who felt that the emphasis of Bush's campaign on being born again Christian was a tad too heavy. I too was of the same opinion. I would have been more at ease if the Christian angle was little lighter.

But if the MMA is to act like goats, I am dashed happy that Bush's campaign emphasised on Christain value.

Now I wish he should have stuffed it down the gullet instead!

tarek

Ray

Below is an Editorial from "Jang" dated today, you wil note that the paper has been a good friend of the MMA and other socialists players who in Pakistan prefer to be know as "democractic forces":

Madrassa muddle

President General Pervez Musharraf's umpteenth call for to mainstream madrassa students is quite correct. But while it is importing to keep repeating words in order to set the ball rolling in a certain direction, the madrassa issue cannot be resolved through mere calls, made in the hope that things will turn out the way they are expected to against the backdrop of a clerical mass that draws its strength from the status quo. Without a mix of legal and administrative measures, the task of mainstreaming over a million students from seminaries in order to open new windows of opportunities to them will remain a pipedream.

It was on January 12, 2002 that the Gen. Musharraf first promised to reform the madrassa sector as he placed before the nation his blueprint for fighting terrorism. The mainstreaming of madrassas, including their integration with the government-run education system and registration, was the centrepiece of his strategy. In addition to the promises of regulating their curriculum and monitoring funding, the president also pledged that all madrassas would adopt government-issued syllabi by the end of 2002. Most of these measures were incorporated in a draft presidential ordinance in June 2002, which provoked the religious right to issue warnings of street agitation. The pressure was enough for the government to stash away the draft ordinance before enacting it, thus indicating the difficulties of taking any intrusive step in a domain that mushroomed under the military's patronage during the Afghan jihad. The promises remained unfulfilled.

Subsequent official initiatives to reform seminaries, like the Madrassa Reforms Project that sought to introduce non-religious subjects in seminaries and facilitate their infrastructural development, however, became a source of government funding to the clerics who were at the time negotiating the text of the 17th amendment. Many madrassas did avail of the funding to introduce modern subjects like English, mathematics, general science and computers, but the duration of teaching these subjects was at times not even an hour a month. Cosmetic reforms indeed were followed by cosmetic implementation. It is against this backdrop that Gen. Musharraf's fresh call for madrassa reforms is important but needs to be backed by a coherent strategy and planning.

Any expectation that the clergy trained and groomed in a conservative education environment will understand the importance of opening up new doors to their students is as misplaced as an effort to grow a pine tree in a desert. It is incomprehensible why the government continues to expect the seminaries to voluntarily comply with its wish list when similar approach has failed more than once in the past. What is needed is a law that will bind the seminaries to register as educational institutions just like all others in the private sector, follow a certain curriculum that is not divisive on sectarian lines, declare all their sources of funding and adopt a standardized examination system.

So far the seminaries have only been offered carrots by the state, but what is now needed is a deterring legal stick. An ideal situation would be an affirmative action by the state to expand the public sector education delivery system to far corners of the country as an alternative for poorest of the poor.

tarek

Opium business declared legal

PESHAWAR (inp): Mufti Munir Shakir, a renowned religious scholar declared the trade of opium as legitimate in the light of Islam during his routine sermon on an unlicensed FM radio station operating in Bara Khyber Agency the other day.

Mufti Munir Shakir is a popular religious scholar in Khyber Agency and adjacent areas of Afghanistan where a large number of people very regularly have listening to his religious lectures on FM radio station set up in Malakdin Khel area of Bara, Khyber Agency for about six months. It also merits to mention that the poppy cultivation have been increased manifold in the tribal belt over last four years.

Not only the government of Pakistan and Afghanistan have banned the business and cultivation of opium but almost all religious scholars in both the countries have declared the trade and cultivation of poppy as prohibited.
Answering a question Munir Shakir declared the cultivation and trade of opium as legitimate on the grounds that it was mostly used in about 98% medicines.
He said the usage of everything which is having the possibility of carrying positive impacts and befits for human beings could not be declared as illegitimate and prohibited in Islam.

Ray

Tarek,

You are lucky that 'Visioninthedark' is no longer is seem here.

And thank heavens, it comes from you.

The concept of madrassas is not a bad thing actually. Note: Concept ie. charity driven institution for the poor and deprived.

Unfortunately, the madrassa are staffed by maulavis, who are semi literate and know only of the scriptures as taught to them by equally semi literate blokes.

Likewise, they will bring forth more semi literate folks.

In India, we are modernising the madrassas which teach only Moslem children. Not only witll they sway backwards and forwards as they read the books aloud (I don't know how that rocking on the bottom helps learning, but it is hypnotic scene). I will hasten to add that the reform is still in the nascent stage in India.

As for opium being OK by Islam, I wonder hw far that is correct.

As the saying goes, the Devil can cite the scriptures to suit his purpose.

tarek

Ray

That is a new definition of "madressa" -- The word means simple "school" - Yeah Madaress are great but only if the content of the education they impart is something we can approve of.

Vision - He's the best!! And I miss him not being here.

BTW did you notice the learned Mufti's rationale?? How then is alcohol bad, after all does it not help humanity and does it not figure in a variety of medcines??

Ray - before your eyes you are seeking a society and a state spinning out of meaningful existence -- some of our Pakistani friends think that this is not good that we expose this fact, they like you do about religion, they take the positive and forget the negative - but they risk more than they realize.

And did you notice what is happening to opium production?? Imagine that opium trade now has it's own religious justification - whyh not, terror has it's religious justification, why not the opium trade??

I see all this and am consoled by the suggestion that some good may come from this destruction.

platinum786

Tarek, care to explain how exactly Pakistan is aiding and abbetting the taliban?

Why aer you twisting words and articles, so poorly? I mean if your gonna do it, at least use relevant text.

You add "Pakistan is helping taliban" as a header and then post an article about the Taliban having a new spokesperson? Are you accusing the Jang newspaper of aiding and abbetting because they interviewed him? In which case you should also accuse Al Jazeera of the same as they often show Al Queda messages and videos of OBL....

I mean you are all allowed to have views, but what you did is pure B.S, i mean get a grip of yourself and take a look at reality.

What do you gain from trying to make every Pakistan look like a far right islamist? What has Pakistan done to you?

You are only losing credibility by lying.

Ray

Tarek,

I take the negative off my mind when I judge Islam because I look at it as an outsider. Also, maybe it is the psyche that has been ingrained in me because of the secular concept that is practiced in India and drummed into our minds day in and day out. In India it is politically correct to be 'secular' and people like to wear secularism on their sleeve, especially the urban educated.

However, when the secularism taken to hugely ridiculous lengths, then there is problems and even the so called 'secular' become total idiots.



Maybe I am a victim of 'secularism' as the British have adopted (my thread 'secularisation of democracy).

Therefore, as a hopefully secular man, I am forced to look at the positive side of Islam (unless some loony abuses other religions or declare the supremacy of Islam over all relgions; this I don't buy) and hope that Islam cleanse itself of the rabid elements including such rationale as that of the Islamic scholar who feels opium is OK by Islam.

tarek

Plat

Yaara what's the point of questioning my credibility? Look it, where is the story of the Taliban appointing a new spokesman filed from?? Peshawar Pakistan?? And to whom is the interview of the new spokeman given? To Pakistani journalists?? To whom is the offer to accompany Taliban Jihadi as they wage their war on the American and Afghan?? To Pakistani Journalists?? From where to where?? From Pakistan to Afghanistan??

I asked you before to not imagine this is PDF - I have made nothing up, I have presenedt the article as it appeared in the "Jang" -- I invite you to read "CLouded thinking" on the Asian social board - You are experiencing "cognitive dissonance" and it's inappropriate to blame me when reality does not meet your expectation.

Look, Taliban are a reality in Pakistan, they feel so comfortable that they announce their internal workings from Pakistan -- neither you nor I like this fact, but it does not change things, it's still a fact whether we like it or not.

Maybe it's not a question of my credibility, lets face it I'm just a Kafir and a Munafiq, maybe we are better served by looking at the facts and making judgements on these and not on what we want the facts to be? Maybe?

I assure you it gives me no pleasure to learn that Taliban are still finding a home in Pakistan, but ofcourse it's obvious that Taliban have a home in Pakistan, feel confident enough to arrange press briefings and to invite Pakistani jouranlists to accompany them to war in Afghanistan - isn't this what the article has imparted?? What then have I made up?

It may be better to to focus our attention towards the Paksitani authorities and seek an answwr as to why this is - Why have these Taliban not been arrested? who is protecting them? why have those who offer this protyection not being held accountable? If it is not the policy of the Pakistani govt to protect these taliban, how is it that they continue to do business??

Just because these questions are off limit in certain places, does not mean that thinking persons are not asking these questions - that's the real world.

platinum786

just because there are a few in Pakistan who will house Taliban does not mean that our whole nation will. I agree with everything you have said, but general statements like that will not help anyone, only tarnish the image of our nation.

You have managed to make excellent clear points now, could you have done that earlier?

btw, good questions.....i think they are real questions which should be asked, feathers should be ruffled every so often.