ELECTION 2008 | The Pub | The Field Mess | The Staff College | Bookmark WAB



Go Back   World Affairs Board > General Forums > Political Discussions
Register FAQ WAB RSS Feed Forum GuidelinesMembers List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Greetings, and welcome to the World Affairs Board!

The World Affairs Board is one of the premier forums for the discussion of the pressing geopolitical issues of our time. Topics include foreign & defense policy, international security, military developments, weapons proliferation, terrorism, international strategic affairs, and politics. Our membership includes many from military, defense industry, and government backgrounds with expert knowledge on a wide range of topics. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so why not register a World Affairs Board account and join our community today?
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-25-2004, 02:19 AM   #1 (permalink)
Ray
Postmaster General
Military Professional
 
Ray's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-20-03
Posts: 27,292
Country:
India rising and diplomats crossing

Quote:
http://jang.com.pk/thenews/dec2004-d...04/oped/o2.htm

India rising and diplomats crossing
Kamran Shafi

My second trip to India in three years ended last Sunday when I returned through the Wagah border in the company of some friends. We had spent ten pleasant most days in Delhi. Traveling on the comfortable Shatabdi Express train we also took a day trip to Jaipur, where we visited the famous Amer (popularly called Amber) Fort and lunched at the quite stunning Rambagh Palace Hotel.

But first, general impressions, and Delhi, and how it has become so completely different from the Pakistan of today. The moment you cross the border you know that you are in a foreign country despite the fact that the same half-clad farmer carrying the same kahi (hoe) can be seen watering his wheat crop exactly like his counterpart in Pakistani Punjab. The same plastic bags that fly about and blight our villages and towns fly about and blight Indian villages and towns too. The same putrid and smelly water ponds with buffaloes wallowing in them are seen in Chichokimallian, Pakistan as they are in Attari, India.

So what is the glaring difference that jumps right at you and tells you as nothing else could, that you are in a vastly different country? The moment you enter a town, you see women and girls moving about as freely as men. Young women walk in the bazaars with confidence; ride bicycles and motor scooters; everyone goes about their business without even noticing that there are women around too! You get the impression, most of all, that despite so many similarities, including the same mad traffic, you are in a more civilised country where women do not scurry about like frightened rabbits, eyes cast down for fear of being pilloried as they are in this The Land of the Pure. And this, one might add, is an aspect of life particularly hurtful to people of my generation who grew into college life in the 60's, when girls used to cycle to college in Lahore and Karachi, Rawalpindi and even Peshawar, without being looked at lasciviously, leave alone molested by words, taunts and vulgar innuendo.

Back in Delhi, our arrival at the railway station had the same feel as at any large Pakistani train station, only the sheer numbers were greater: crowds milling about, jostling, forcing their way by elbowing others aside, just like in Pakistan. What stood out in Delhi was the complete absence of loud verbal fights and abuse. Is this because the presence of women gentrifies men who can otherwise be so boorish? In contrast, one heard the most vulgar abuse being bandied about by two loutish taxi drivers at the Daewoo Bus Station in Lahore, as one arrived there from Wagah for onward travel to Rawalpindi.

You should see today's Delhi! It is a thriving city, hotels full to brimming with foreigners -- tourists, investors, importers, journalists; its shops have undergone a sea change in the three years that I was there last, now looking (and feeling) like shops in any of the great capitals of the world. Shopkeepers and sales people are exceedingly polite, greeting you as you enter, thanking you even if you leave without making a purchase. The quality of goods is excellent, and the prices cheaper than back home, even after discounting the fact that the Indian rupee is now almost 25 per cent stronger than ours.

Talking of foreign businessmen in India, India's foreign exchange reserves shot by three billion US dollars last month - ALL of it in Foreign Direct Investment - to 135 Billion US Dollars. Indeed, there were at least six high profile Italian textiles buyers in our train carriage, traveling to Amritsar for negotiations with Indian counterparts. In contrast, one wonders about the last time that Faisalabad, the center of Pakistani textiles, last saw a foreigner...

You should go see Delhi's pulsating nightlife. Go to one of the many smart bars and restaurants that have recently opened, say, Olive, in an area called 'Qutb'. That's right, the name derives from the nearby Qutb Minar. The ambience is something to behold, its clientele made up of 65 per cent locals and 45 per cent foreigners, all having the time of their lives wining and dining on the finest the world has to offer.

While on the subject of recreation, Jaipur alone has five five-star hotels, all solidly booked months in advance. As noted in this same space some time back, 'five-star' hotels in this country make India's hotels of equal ranking appear at least seven-star. And they are expensive, VERY expensive. Still, the Rambagh has no rooms on offer until December 2005! We saw one bus-load of well heeled tourists leave and another arrive in the one hour that we were there.

India may not be 'shining' as the BJP found to its cost, but it is certainly rising with every passing day. And where are we? Wallowing in self-pity; angry with the world; twisted in mind and spirit, looking for scapegoats for our own national failings. We've got to pull our fingers out if we are to get anywhere at all, and fast. We've missed the past few boats, could we please catch the next one that might happen along?

Back in Islamabad the Beautiful, an incident that may well not have happened in India -- on my way to my bank in the diplomatic enclave, I got caught at the check post at the enclave's fenced and gated entrance. There were three vehicles ahead of me, at least ten behind, all waiting for the stream of mainly diplomatic cars from the opposite side to get by. A sleek Daimler Sovereign flying the Union Jack and carrying His Excellency the High Commissioner for Britain jumped the queue, trying to nose in front in typical taxi-driver style.

The stream of traffic from the other side was so solid that he could not get through and came to a halt directly to my right, blocking the road further. I saw red and began to blow my horn in the internationally recognised sign of annoyance. There was no reaction from the Daimler, save a casual glance from the chap sitting in the front with the driver. The Daimler then began to inch forward until His Excellency himself came alongside me. I continued to blow the horn, and said loudly "Get back in line". His Excellency studiously looked out the right rear window of his car, ignoring me, somebody whose space his car had violated. He quite rudely did not apologise as he jolly well should have done, but apparently it would have been below his station to apologise to a Pakistani nobody in an eighteen-year old little rattle-trap.

But then, why should he even think of doing the right thing by a common citizen, when he knows us for the grovellers we are? As a young diplomat posted here many years ago he knows how cheaply we sell ourselves - a drink now and then please, Sirji! More strength to you, Your Majesty; go break some more rules while you are here. Walk all over us for all you are worth, for there are few who are more shameless than us.
I have posted this since there is always a India vs Pakistan comparison. Even the media can't desist from this it appears.

It is high time to realise India and Pakistan are two independent states from 1947. While we have historical, social, cultural similarities and even ties, yet, because of historical reasons we are now two independent countries.

The sooner we start applying our minds to our countries instead of being in a tit for tat race, it will be better for all of us.
Ray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2004, 02:51 AM   #2 (permalink)
Karthik
Seeker of Rivendell
Senior Contributor
 
Karthik's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-15-04
Posts: 1,569
Country:
Send a message via Yahoo to Karthik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray
India may not be 'shining' as the BJP found to its cost, but it is certainly rising with every passing day. And where are we? Wallowing in self-pity; angry with the world; twisted in mind and spirit, looking for scapegoats for our own national failings. We've got to pull our fingers out if we are to get anywhere at all, and fast. We've missed the past few boats, could we please catch the next one that might happen along?

That is an honest and a candid observation. I'm not too surprised the writer chooses to remain silent on his country's obsession with Kashmir - may be because of the fear of reprisal.
Karthik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2004, 04:58 AM   #3 (permalink)
Tronic
Navajo Code Talker
Senior Contributor
 
Tronic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-27-04
Location: Patiala, India
Posts: 5,370
Country:
Man... India vs. Pakistan, no competition. What pakistan needs is a steady government to really make any progress. If you look at Pakistan's history, they have a military coup like after every 10 years.
Tronic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2004, 05:12 AM   #4 (permalink)
Ray
Postmaster General
Military Professional
 
Ray's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-20-03
Posts: 27,292
Country:
If Pakistan has changed their type of govt ever time someone coughed, it should not be surprising. It is the psyhce responsible North of Delhi. India may not ahve had military govts but skullduggery is not new to Indian north.

The folks north in India and thus also Pakistan are the upward mobile types; they like to get rich quick and morals are secondary.

They are the folks who are not satisfied with their present circumstances and nothing wrong in that except they believe in the theory by 'hook or by crook' and mostly by 'crook'.

Again, it is not a patent of Pakistan. Delhi and North are equally good at it.


What we all should to is work around this ethos and get our countries going.
Ray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2004, 05:28 AM   #5 (permalink)
Tronic
Navajo Code Talker
Senior Contributor
 
Tronic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-27-04
Location: Patiala, India
Posts: 5,370
Country:
All i'm trying to say is that India has had a much more democratic grasp on their government. I mean India has been the only country in the world as far as I know which has actually let the communist party take control of two states (Kerala, West Bengal) which actually voted to be communist, (I think this was like in the 1970's) but anyways in India the people actually get their say, they get what they vote for. Although i can't deny that 15% of the parliament members have a criminal record but i'm just tryin to say that in India personnel freedom is valued more than in Pakistan.
Tronic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2004, 09:13 AM   #6 (permalink)
Karthik
Seeker of Rivendell
Senior Contributor
 
Karthik's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-15-04
Posts: 1,569
Country:
Send a message via Yahoo to Karthik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tronic
All i'm trying to say is that India has had a much more democratic grasp on their government. I mean India has been the only country in the world as far as I know which has actually let the communist party take control of two states (Kerala, West Bengal) which actually voted to be communist, (I think this was like in the 1970's) but anyways in India the people actually get their say, they get what they vote for. Although i can't deny that 15% of the parliament members have a criminal record but i'm just tryin to say that in India personnel freedom is valued more than in Pakistan.

I agree with that view. Albeit choatic and often unruly, democracy and democratic institutions in India do command a certain amount of respect and credibility.
__________________
"There is no excellence in all this world that can be separated from right living." - David Star Jordan My Blog
Karthik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2004, 01:15 AM   #7 (permalink)
Samudra
Senior Contributor
 
Samudra's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-01-04
Location: North London
Posts: 4,362
Country:
There obviously is no need to keep comparing India and Pakistan , and there certainly is no need either to still consider them both as "two kids , torn from one mother".
Comparing India and Pakistan is as foolish as Musharaffs demand for Military balance with India.

India is rising .Sure. But There still are huge masses to whom development hasnt brought any good at all. Much work lies ahead.India is rising and we are to keep working until no man goes hungry , no man goes without basic amenities and no man is denied an equal oppurtunity.
Samudra is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
India retaliates against expulsion of diplomat by Pak Karthik Political Discussions 158 08-17-2006 20:26 PM
India & China Thread percentage_plyr Political Discussions 35 06-18-2006 17:12 PM
An old article: To explain why China is ahead of India in 50 years oneman28 Political Discussions 17 05-24-2005 17:40 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 20:08 PM.


Rochen is the business hosting sponsor of World Affairs Board and a provider of reseller web hosting services.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC8