Swastikas, neo-Nazi gangs and attacks on Jews. Where? In Israel - Page 2

Stan187 · 09-10-2007, 13:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by entropy

The Khassidim of Antwerp are in fact against Israel, because they claim Muslims, Jews and Christians have lived in relative peace (with the later two as dhimmi, of course) in the Jeruzalem region before the "invasion".

There are different strains of Hasidism. It is likely that there a few different types of Hasids there. That's how the Lubavitcher Hasidic sect became the largest and most popular, because they supported Israeli independence, because the one that was bigger before declared opposition to Israel because it was not established by God.

I guess if getting cut down at the whim of Muslim masters and their demogogue leaders is relative peace to them, I don't know what to say. I imagine if that was the way they lived in Antwerp, they'd start singing a different tune.

Stan187 · 09-10-2007, 13:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarek Morgen

I think it is, I recently read a report about a German who went for Israel to open up a brewery. (It appears that they dont have good beer over there, since he states that he is making a fortune and cand even produce 10% of what the demand is. Nor can he expand his capatices without risking the qualitiy of the beer because he doesnt have enough trained people for it yet and tries to get more people from Germany with experience to come to Israel to help out.

Israelis don't really know much about good beer because they don't have much of it, so they don't know what they're missing. Then again, beer is not as popular there as it is in say Europe of the US.

entropy · 09-10-2007, 13:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan187

Israelis don't really know much about good beer because they don't have much of it, so they don't know what they're missing. Then again, beer is not as popular there as it is in say Europe of the US.

No beer? I think I'll start supporting Palestine from now

Stan187 · 09-10-2007, 13:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by entropy

No beer? I think I'll start supporting Palestine from now

Or coffee. Nescafe instant coffee is all they have. A reason to give the more support. The poor souls are deprived.

entropy · 09-10-2007, 13:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan187

Or coffee. Nescafe instant coffee is all they have. A reason to give the more support. The poor souls are deprived.

Only instant coffee? All those anti-zionists should have compassion, drinking this crap all the time would give everyone imperialist tendencies.

Stan187 · 09-10-2007, 14:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by entropy

Only instant coffee? All those anti-zionists should have compassion, drinking this crap all the time would give everyone imperialist tendencies.

Israeli friend was staying at my house this summer. When I offered him normal coffee he gave me a look of disgust and asked if we have any instant coffee. It was traumatic.

Expat Canuck · 09-10-2007, 18:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan187

You do realize the minimal correlation here don't you? That secluded London community is hyper-religious. Most of Israel, and most Israelis, are quite secular. Ultra-religious communities of any creed and country tend to do that, be they Muslims or Evangelicals.

You do have a point there, hyper religious people are really hard to relate to for me I guess.

Expat Canuck · 09-10-2007, 18:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan187

I doubt that is really true. Because I doubt that most of these kids have much or any Jewish ancestry to begin with.

Otherwise that's really, really messed up in the most mind boggling way.

Edit// Hasidism, I have never heard of this, what is it?

Poor guys in Israel drinking bad beer and Nescafe, damn.

FibrillatorD · 09-10-2007, 19:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by entropy

Russian youngsters are glorifying Stalin. It is a common tendency.

Another important thing to remember I think is that the groups appear to be composed exclusively of disaffected pubescents. They're kids. Over here, in the states, teenage rebellion manifests itself by heading into the underground (from gangs to drugs to veganism, rock and roll, etc. inherently un-corporate places, as our state may be perceived to be dominated by corporations). Presumably when the "man" is defined firstly by his Jewishness, then teenage angst manifests itself as antisemitism.

Quote:

Mr Buanitov’s mother tried to excuse her son, saying that the Israeli authorities had done little to help Russian immigrants, who she said suffered from regular discrimination. “My son is a charity case. He has nothing against the state,” she said. “He finished junior high and stopped attending school after Arabs stabbed him and the police did nothing about it

“He has no connection with the Nazis. Our family suffered enough under the Nazis.”

The group’s apparent penchant for filming their own brutal attacks seemed to have greatly bolstered the police’s case. One video showed the gang standing around a heroin addict, who was also a Soviet immigrant but who insisted that he was Jewish. He was made to kneel down and beg “forgiveness from the Russian people for being Jewish and a junkie,” Israeli media reported.

There is no law explicitly banning anti-Semitism in the Jewish state, simply because it was never expected to occur.

Stan187 · 09-10-2007, 20:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FibrillatorD

Another important thing to remember I think is that the groups appear to be composed exclusively of disaffected pubescents. They're kids. Over here, in the states, teenage rebellion manifests itself by heading into the underground (from gangs to drugs to veganism, rock and roll, etc. inherently un-corporate places, as our state may be perceived to be dominated by corporations). Presumably when the "man" is defined firstly by his Jewishness, then teenage angst manifests itself as antisemitism.

Most teenage rebellion in Israel happens in much the same way, music scenes, drugs and what-not. I've not many any Israelis who rebelled against Jewishness because it is associated with the man. And I've met quite a decent number, from various communities and backgrounds.

Stan187 · 09-10-2007, 20:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Expat Canuck

Otherwise that's really, really messed up in the most mind boggling way.

Edit// Hasidism, I have never heard of this, what is it?

Poor guys in Israel drinking bad beer and Nescafe, damn.

Hasidism is a sect of orthodox Judaism. They're usually pretty recognizable by all black clothes and hats at all times of the year.

Expat Canuck · 09-10-2007, 21:47 PM

Thanks for answering my question. Man oh man would that ever get hot to wear in a warm country, and smelly.

I wonder if these youths will grow out of it? It's a bit of a vicious circle running with gangs which is essentially what they are doing.

Stan187 · 09-10-2007, 22:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Expat Canuck

Thanks for answering my question. Man oh man would that ever get hot to wear in a warm country, and smelly.

I wonder if these youths will grow out of it? It's a bit of a vicious circle running with gangs which is essentially what they are doing.

Israel, like any other industrialized country, has its fair share of gangs. The utmost majority of which are not anti-Semitic. And I wanna put all those guys in prison. Let alone these thugs.

Expat Canuck · 09-10-2007, 23:13 PM

This stuff makes me so glad I'm not a teenager anymore.

Ray · 09-11-2007, 00:23 AM

The latest on it:

Quote:

Israeli anger over 'Nazi' group
By Martin Asser
BBC News, Jerusalem

Three suspected members of the alleged neo-Nazi gang
The accused and their families have denied any neo-Nazi activity
Israelis have been shocked by the story of a group of young immigrants from the former Soviet Union who allegedly formed a neo-Nazi cell in the Jewish state - founded as a haven from the European anti-Semitism that led to the Nazi Holocaust in World War II.

The group, from the central town of Petah Tikva, are said to have filmed themselves carrying out hate crimes, wearing Nazi insignia and proclaiming their allegiance to Adolf Hitler.

Eight young men are being held over 15 assaults of Orthodox Jews, foreign workers and other minority groups. Police said a ninth youth had fled the country.

It is thought to be the first organised neo-Nazi cell to be uncovered in Israel, although alleged members and their families have denied any neo-Nazi activity.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert spoke of his outrage at the footage, viewed by ministers at a cabinet meeting, and said that Israeli society had failed to educate the youths.

About one million former Soviet Jews have immigrated to Israel since the 1990s, under the country's "law of return", which allows entry to anybody who is Jewish or has Jewish ancestry (defined as having at least one Jewish grandparent).

Some of the immigrants are thought to have only the most tenuous links to Judaism, and experts say a small minority have embraced Nazi beliefs.

'Widely ignored'

Marina Niznik, a lecturer at Tel Aviv University, says some young Russian-speaking Israelis are being influenced by a rise in fascism in their former homelands.

Alleged Nazi gang members
The suspects allegedly proclaimed allegiance to Adolf Hitler

"Some of this generation are completely lost in society. They don't feel an affiliation with Israeli society, they feel like strangers," she says.

They are conscripted into the Israeli army but many experience a feeling of alienation from society, fed by lives spent in low-income areas and in broken families.

"It is as a sort of protest, a form of self-identification. The problem is that no-one wants to speak about this, it has been widely ignored until now," Ms Niznik said.

Zalman Gilichenski, of the Information Centre for Victims of Anti-Semitism, an NGO, says neo-Nazi behaviour among some immigrants is encouraged by links they maintain with racist groups in Russia.

"Many times the police and government ministries were told about this, but they were not interested," Mr Gilichenski told the BBC.

"There are other groups like these in almost every city in Israel," Mr Gilichenski said.

"In Russia, a day doesn't pass without a racist murder, and these youths are very connected to their friends in Russia (through the internet) and they learn from them; they even videotape their attacks."

'Deportation'

Worshippers in prayer shawls look at a swastika sprayed inside a synagogue in Petah Tikva in May 2006 (file picture)
Some accuse the authorities of ignoring the problem

The discovery of a violent anti-Semitic cell among young people, whose immigration to Israel was based on their having Jewish roots, has caused particular outrage in the Israeli media and public, sparking calls for action.

"We obviously have to change immigration policies, not to take in everyone who wants to come," Mr Gilichenski said.

There have also been calls for the law to be changed to permit the revocation of Israeli citizenship and deportation for neo-Nazis.

At the moment, the Israeli statute outlaws denial of the Holocaust, but not neo-Nazi behaviour.

Michael Jankelowitz, of the Jewish Agency, which is responsible for immigration to Israel, warns against knee-jerk reactions, saying the Petah Tikva case arises from an internal Israeli problem with the education system.

"Immigrants from the former Soviet Union have changed the face of Israel," Mr Jankelowitz told the BBC.

"They have made an enormous contribution in the fields of medicine, hi-tech, science and the arts," he says.

Other experts say it would be against the state of Israel's strategic interests as Israel needs to encourage immigration because of the demographic challenge to the Jewish state from a growing Israeli Arab and Palestinian population.

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Israeli anger over 'Nazi' group

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09-10-2007, 21:47 PM	#27 (permalink)
Expat Canuck Homesick Fool *Military Professional* Join Date: 05-17-05 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,020 Country:	Thanks for answering my question. Man oh man would that ever get hot to wear in a warm country, and smelly. I wonder if these youths will grow out of it? It's a bit of a vicious circle running with gangs which is essentially what they are doing.

09-10-2007, 23:13 PM	#29 (permalink)
Expat Canuck Homesick Fool *Military Professional* Join Date: 05-17-05 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,020 Country:	This stuff makes me so glad I'm not a teenager anymore.

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