Ray

Xerxes,

Jews are not above law.

It appears to some that they are above law since there appears at times that the collective guilt for the apathy during Hitler's era is speaking!

__________________


"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

Ray

Xerxes,

You have never been colonised and so you will not understand that some people are more equal than others!

It is a part of history and it is a part of life.

One gets used to it and one learns to live with it.

The world is changing and we must all help the world to change instead of driving the wedge deeper!

Islam has created a fear psychosis with the fundamentalists carrying out mayhem and using Islamic scripture to justify the same. Had the Islamic world risen as one to condemn these misguided blasphemers, then none would indicate the anger against Islam. Instead of condemnation of these terror mongers, Islamic cleric (men of Allah, if you wish) have praised these abject low form of human life and murderers, who blaspheme Islam!

Obviously, it would be wrong of you to feel that one would embrace these murderers and clerics who praise them.

Compare Christians to Islam. There is a term 'Bible bashers' which is a derogatory term for those who use Religion for their temporal purpose. There is no terms as Koran bashers, or is there?

So, quite a few Christians will scoff and condemn those fools who misuse Christianity for their purpose.

Religion has its own place. It is a guide to live a decent and honest life. It is not for political purpose or for furthering one's temporal agenda.

The Islamic fundamentalists are using the Islamic religion for political and temporal purpose and the Moslem world is either praising the murdering hordes or sympathising with the terrorists or are standing on the periphery as mute and impotent people!

Obviously, such a ethos does not excite confidence in non Moslems.

So, why blame the non Moslems?

xerxes

Ray,

can i ask what you mean by "some people are more equal than others"?

__________________
If we contrast the rapid progress of this mischievous discovery of gunpowder with the slow and laborious advances of reason, science, and the arts of peace, a philosopher, according to his temper, will laugh or weep at the folly of mankind. - Edward Gibbon

Ray

Xerxes,

I am not an intellectual as you.

I sympathise with the killing of all people, but I am more concerned with what affects my life, like the terrorists who are turning my country and my life upside down!

Ray

You are the intellectual.

Your guess would be better than mine!

That apart, it means that when you are colonised, the colonisers are more equal than those colonised!

Again, abhorrent though it might be, but it was a part of life and history!

But we must work ourselves out of those times to bring in a better future.

Let me quote from Omar Khayyam:

Ah, my Beloved, fill the Cup that clears

TO-DAY of past Regrets and future Fears---

xerxes

Mr Ray,

I understand what you are saying and there should be no sympathy for the terrorist that target civilians.

But one should not forget state terrorism. For example, while a few chechens go around in school doing really stupid things, one should not forget that the same terror can come also in the form of organized armies and airforce. I think even in WWII, there was a huge gap between the concept of terrorist and organized armies. The best example is the German SS forces that "terrorized" Europe, while never being called as a terrorist entity as a casual word of the mouth, though declared as an Criminal organization by Nuremberg Tribunal. Although, the Germans had their own terrorists in France, Crete and Soviet, and in Crete the inhabitants were brutal toward captured Germans. Beheading was not uncommon.

Anyways, I fully understand what you are saying in regards of islamic terrorism in India and how it affects you more.

Omar Khayyam, hehehe

EDIT: also in regards of Christinaity and Islam, I am the last person who should speak of either of them, because I know very little of both. So I cannot contribute anything there. Speaking, of myslef, I live in Canada, and here the way I see it is the following ==> "When in Rome, do as Romans". Us, while we live in Canada and keep our heritage and Persian traditions we also inherit new things from Canada, such as Christmas. We always a get Christmas tree each decembre. In my views, people should take the best of all cultures and make it their own and reject the worse of all. Flexability is the key.

Officer of Engineers

Simple. What happened to the Jews is remembered is because it's us. We did it to ourselves and we allowed ourselves to be shoved into ovens. You don't forget that kind of thing.

What happens to others cannot be so easily remembered.

__________________
Chimo

xerxes

I think, I can agree with that assessment.

Ray

Xerxes,

Let us look at State terrorism and Religious terrorism in perspective.

State terrorism is understandable. States can be horrid and autocratic. One would not be overly surprised. It has a paradigm.

But Religious terrorism?

How?

Religion is supposed to be for the good of Mankind!

How can Religion which is a panacea for leading a decent life contribute to hate and killing. It is incomprehensible! The paradigm cannot be fathomed.

What cannot be fathomed and controlled is scary and shocks! Makes one feel totally helpless.

In contrast, State terrorism can be fought against. It has form. Religion and Religious terrorism is nebulous, wthout form, hoary! You cannot fight a ghost, can you?

That apart, if the Moslem community was as reasonable as you, then the animosity that you see against Islam, would not have been there!

Unfortunately, Moslems do not display your tolerance and wise-ness!

gunnut

I did not include that one because:

1. It was vague. It did not specify which way the issue was being allegedly distorted. Did the school favor the Arabs? Did the school favor the Israelis?

2. What does "did not accord with the teachings of their denomination" mean?

Meanwhile we can clearly see what avoiding holocaust means. Muslims students may have voiced the opinion that their mosques say holocaust did not happen, or it was a jew hoax. The school therefore dropped it from history in order to avoid offending the muslims. Muslims did not object by saying the holocaust death toll was "too low" or it was more horrific than portrayed in the book, for sure.

__________________
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

bandwagon

Ray, religion is good, for the individual, even if it turns him evil, because it gives him purpose, which is motivating and raises the quality of his life.

Religion is obviously not always good for mankind, and it demonstrably depends on the nature of the specific religion, particularly the doctrine and its interpretation.

Note that Christianity was born as a religion that was aligned with natural inherent human morality, and as times became corrupted by its leaders and to motivate evil deeds. On the other hand Islam as a religion was born as a religion to motivate war and contrary to true moral behaviour towards others, (Initially Muhammeds revelations were peaceable, but after the Hejira they changed -for obvious reasons) and has since become corrupted by most followers as a religion of peace.

When religion aligns with inherent morality (compassion) the increase in quality of life is greatest (there's scientific proof)

This phrase denotes hypocrisy: pretending to regard everyone as equal whilst assuming the role of an elite class. The phrase comes from George Orwell's "Animal Farm", a satire on the Bolshevik revolution, where the animals take over the farm, led by the pigs. The latter proclaim the doctrine of equality but are then found to isolate themselves and having a high old time whilst the other animals sweat. The pigs show that this is still consistent with the doctrine of equality by extending the motto: "everyone is equal but some are more equal than others".

gamercube

To each his own.

IMO, you, just like everyone else, jumped on the bandwagon when it comes to criticising Muslims without taking a look at the overall conclusions of the study. It doesn't have to necessarily be a conscious move, but it happens nonetheless.

Newspapers, obviously, will print stuff that sells, and printing all the conclusions of the study in their entirety does not create the required level of sensationalism.

I've always been amazed at how the "free media" in any democratic country can actually be called "free", when most of its reporting is biased and one sided and changes flavour according to the prevailing political situation.

gunnut

I never claimed to be neutral. I have strong opinions. I try to be fair.

I agree. The news organization should just come out and say what they are instead of hiding behind reporting facts when they try to skew facts or push their opinions to their consumers as facts.

Parihaka

Gamercube, forgive me if I seem to be lecturing here but it is a common misconception that the press is free in democratic countries, but it has never been so.
The expression "freedom of the press" comes not from the concept of a freedom of mainstream media to say what it likes, but literally the freedom to 'libel' engendered when printing presses first came to the west.
It gave dissenters such as the Puritans the ability to quickly disseminate their beliefs in the form of 'posters' (usually small boys nimble on their feet) 'posting' these printed libels to the general public.
Freedom of the press comes from the dissenters and anarchists, not from the government bequeathing some 'right' of saying what you want. The Internet, as you are aware, is the latest form of this free dissension, and as such is of great concern to all governments.

__________________
In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz

xerxes

Ray, i dont support any kind of terrorism, wether it be state-terrorism or religious terrorism. I am not religious myself, but I have deep respect for religous people as long as they keep to the spiritual level and dont go crazy.

Taking a step back and looking on this, in regards of terrorism propelled by an ideology - ex: Islam - one can say that Side B is taking advantage and using an ideology for its aims while Side A is using its economical and technology and political advances ties for its aims. For nations and region that have that are Side B - mostly Middle Eastern nations - they use terrorism propelled by an ideology to replace what they are missing in terms of technology, economial and political ties. It is ugly, it is disgusting, it is disturbing, it is unhuman. But what can we do. The system has to balance itself out. There is no other way.

How do we destroy Religious terrorism? ... it is not easy to destroy it, but IMHO you can undo it. You can cut its lifeline. and its lifeline is not munitions and guns, but hate. Deny it a host. Deny Iraq (should have) in 2003, to the religious nuts. Deny it a reason to exist and deny a chance to thrive, and it will curl up and die.