Ray

I think Bush appears to have cried Wolf too many times over Pakistan being serious about curbing the Taleban.

Even now, Musharraf will weasel out. He is too clever a politician in a military uniform and no wonder he became the Chief of an army where politicking is a second name!

Nothing can be done no matter how many terse messages he give to Pakistan. And Musharrah knows that Bush can keep whistling for the favourable wind to blow. Musharraf has his own agenda and he is pursuing it excellently well.

Bush and the US are mere captives of his agenda.

NATO troops are destined for a hard time since nothing can change Musharraf's game plan.

Musharrah will squeeze the US for lollies and the US will merely watch on the sidelines for the effect that shall never come.

One more terse message will follow and then another, while Musharraf laugh his way to the bank and plays with his gifted military toys. He is a real leader (sneaky, but for Pakistan he is a great asset) and will go down in history as a person who made a monkey of the world and especially a sole global superpwer.

But could I be wrong?

__________________


"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

subba

Musharaff is providing CIA a platform to make inroads into Iran from the Eastern flank. While doing so he is being friendly to Iran and in exchange for Nuclear cooperation in the past and possibly even in the very recent past, he's getting gas. Playing both against each other. Same he's done by making a deal with the AQ and Taliban in the frontier areas, while milking Uncle for arms and aid to fight and sustain the economy. To the East he does the same thing, while elements in the ISI aid the LeT and Jihadi elements to carry out terrorist activities here, he pretends to be a fellow victim, bans these groups under pressure. Yet nothing is happening. I only wonder how long he can juggle so many balls and keep a straight face. And one just can't tighten screws on Pakistan at the moment with US caught in a mess in Iraq and Afghanistan. Iran propping up. IMO Bush's / US's leverage is going down. Already many officials in Pakistan are brazenly suggesting to US officials to make a deal with the Taliban.

MarquezRazor

So whats new?

Ray

Quote:

Last Updated: Monday, 26 February 2007, 13:46 GMT Cheney in surprise Pakistan talks US Vice-President Dick Cheney has held talks with President Pervez Musharraf on a surprise visit to Pakistan. Mr Cheney urged Pakistan to do more to combat the Taleban near the Afghan border, but also praised its role in the "war on terror", officials said. Pakistan is a key US ally in the region but Washington has been alarmed by the Taleban's growing strength in its tribal areas bordering Afghanistan. Mr Cheney spent only a few hours in Islamabad before flying on to Kabul. His trip follows a report in the New York Times saying that US President George W Bush wants to send a tough message to Pakistan that Washington could cut its aid to the country unless President Musharraf goes after militants more aggressively. It also coincides with one to Islamabad by UK Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett. Taleban threat The BBC's Barbara Plett in Islamabad says the US and Britain share concerns about an expected increase in Taleban fighting and the support the insurgents get from Pakistani tribes along the border with Afghanistan. She says the Americans have made quite pointed statements in recent months about the need for Pakistan to eliminate Taleban safe havens.

Quote:

There was no publicity around Dick Cheney's visit to the region. He went straight into talks with President Musharraf on his arrival in Islamabad and made no public comment after his meeting. Pakistani officials, however, said Mr Cheney had conveyed US "apprehensions" about al-Qaeda regrouping in the tribal areas near Afghanistan.

Piling up pressure or merely cosmetic?

However, Cheney is the shadowy Joe who prowl in the background as the hitman or as in India say, he is the one who takes the supari (betel nut, but the meaning is the guy who does the killing)!

Lahori paa jee

Dick cheneys visit to Pakistan and the lastest demands to do more could to a move to bring Pakistan under preparation and a possible attack on Iran is coming

__________________
Nisaar main teri galiyon pe aaye watan, ke jahan
Chali hai rasm keh koi na sar utha keh chaley

Ray

Welcome back Lahori.

Long time, no see!

Nothing will happen.

Even the police can't move Musharraf!

Forget about Dick doing a damn or Bush or whoever that lady is!

Musharraf is like Mohammed Ali (Cassius Clay)

Mush is the Greatest!

He moves like a butterfly and stings with his Taleban like a bee!

And he will still wipe up the moolah and play with new toys without Christmas being any near!

kams

Interesting analysis of situation.

Interview with Daniel Markey

Hari_Om

Ray,

On Pakistan, the US has painted itself into a corner.

I see the end game on this as being one where the US will have to unload more dollars to assuage wounded Pakistani honour and dignity in return for which a couple of Al Quaida no 13’s will be tossed the US’s way .

The portents point that way :

Bush White House defends Musharraf even as Cheney urges stronger fight against militants

Despite not being a professional politician, General President Musharraf has certainly run rings around President George Bush.

Marvelously adroit stuff from Pakistan.

Get paid hard cash to clean up a problem that was created by oneself while continuing to sustain the problem even while getting paid to put an end to it .

texasjohn

Ray,

The American public is pretty slow on the uptake.

However, once they wake up, the fury of being double-crossed will come forth.The idea that that they are being ripped off WILL have it's consequences.

I think it is a game of patience that will come to a head at some point given the raw dollars this entity is being given with no result.

I have no doubt the F-16s will be held back again. Cheney hinted at military aid being cut. I hope he is serious!

Ray

Good logic.

Some come into Pakistan. Pakistan is to be blamed.

Someone goes out of Pakistan. Pakistan is to be blamed.

Indeed, they must be responsible for the Frankenstein they raised and even now nurture.

If they were only to stop nurturing these elements, then of course they would not be blamed!

Ray

Equally interesting is this article:

A private war of Bush and Musharraf?

US money being handed over and the key officials do not know!

Or is this article a apologist attitude for a fantastic screwball of a situation!

saambaarblast

Zee News - `Next attack on America could come from al Qaeda in Pak`

Next attack on America could come from al Qaeda in Pak

Washington, Feb 28: Pakistan is home to the top al Qaeda leadership and the next terror attack on America could come from the militant outfit based there and not Iraq as popularly believed, a top US intelligence official has said.

The al Qaeda leadership is trying to rebuild and establish training camps in Pakistan, the new Director of National Intelligence in US, Admiral Mike McConnell said at a hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee on Capitol Hill.

He was asked by Democratic Senator Jack Reed of Rhode Island that if a new attack was being organised against the United States it would come from Iraq or Pakistan.

To this McConnell replied, "two lines of reasoning to answer that. First of all, Iraq is a cause celebre for the jihadists, in creating forces. My belief is the attack most likely would be planned and come out of the leadership in Pakistan."

"However, that said, there are al Qaeda elements, as you know, in Iraq and in Syria and other places, and even in Europe. And our information tells us they also are planning," McConnel replied.

Pakistan could do more in coming to terms with the al Qaeda and the Taliban and the President of Pakistan is "wrestling" with this issue in the context of the next elections coming up in the country, he said.

"The camps that have been established in Pakistan are in an area that has never been governed by any power. And so the best of our knowledge that the senior leadership (of the al Qaeda), number one and number two, are there, and they are attempting to reestablish and rebuild and to establish training camps," McConnell said.

Al Qaeda is trying to "rebuild" in the Northwest frontier of Pakistan, he added.

Speaking on the state of al Qaeda, McConnel said, first of all, just let me say that al Qaeda leadership as it existed prior to 9/11 or prior to going into Afghanistan, somewhere in the neighbourhood of three-quarters of the leadership have been killed or captured.

"Now, does that mean that those members have not been replaced? Yes, they have been replaced. The downside, from the terrorists' point of view, is they've been replaced, but they don't have the experience. That said, they are no less committed to the kind of heinous acts that were carried out on 9/11," he said.

"When I looked at prior to going into Afghanistan, there were literally thousands of those forces in training with multiple camps. That's gone. They are attempting to rebuild in the northwest frontier of Pakistan. The numbers are not the same, but there are volunteers who are attempting to reestablish," he said.

"These are very committed individuals. And they are very smart and adaptive. And I think what we're seeing is we inflicted a major blow. They retreated to another area . And they are going through a process to re-establish and rebuild, adapting to the seams, or the weak spots, as they might perceive them," the top Intelligence official noted.

Bureau Report
#####################################

Perhaps, that warning by Bush is an advise for Mush to ship up or ...

aviator

Mushy is struck from both sides , on one side if he strikes hard against taliban then he will face much problems in his own country, one can see that last few strikes against them resulted in many bomb blasts in pakistan. Also NWFP is not fully under center's control and mushy cannot dictate everything on them and cannot kick out taliban without pashtun's support . While US has been there for abt 5yrs and their patience seems to be coming to end and they want results.

saambaarblast

The way things stand in Pakistan today, one cannot tell where Army ends and where ISI begins or where ISI ends and terrorism begins. They are all inter-wined in one way or the other, and Mush-the-terror-victim-doing-a-balancing-act is one con job being pulled ever since his being in power, which is to cover his a$$.

Law80

CHENEY'S FAR FROM SWEET MESSAGE TO MUSHARRAF - INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM MONITOR--PAPER NO. 198


CHENEY'S FAR FROM SWEET MESSAGE TO MUSHARRAF - INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM MONITOR--PAPER NO. 198

By B. Raman

After his official visits to Japan and Australia, the US Vice-President, Dick Cheney, stopped over in Islamabad on February 26, 2007, for talks followed by a lunch with President Pervez Musharraf. His plans to stop over in Islamabad were not announced in advance by the Pakistan Foreign Office and the US State Department due to concerns over likely threats to his security in the background of the recent incidents of suicide terrorism or attempted suicide terrorism in Pakistani territory. Two of these attempts, which were unsuccessful, were made in Islamabad itself. An official announcement about his visit and his talks with Musharraf was made only after Cheney had left Islamabad.

2. While the Pakistani authorities have not made much headway in the investigation of these cases, they suspect that at least some of these incidents were triggered off by a Pakistani air strike on a madrasa in the Bajaur agency on October 30, 2006, in which 83 persons were killed. This strike was reportedly made on the basis of information originating from the US agencies that this madrasa was being used by Al Qaeda and the Taliban to train their new recruits. The local tribal leaders have strongly denied this and have been accusing the Musharraf regime of killing innocent civilians at the behest of the US. This was followed by another controversial Pakistani air strike in South Waziristan on January 16, 2007, in which the Pakistani army claimed to have killed eight terrorists. As a result, anti-US feelings are high in the tribal areas bordering Afghanistan, from where the suicide terrorists are alleged to have come.

3. According to reliable Pakistani sources, Dick Cheney's talks with Musharraf were partly Afghanistan related, partly Al Qaeda related and partly Iraq related. They deny that the discussions covered the current crisis on Iran also. They insist Iran was not raised by either side. It is not yet known whether Cheney raised the long-pending US request for handing over A. Q. Khan, the nuclear scientist, for interrogation regarding his collusion with Iran and North Korea.

4. The Afghan-related discussions were about the failure of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and Army to locate and arrest the leaders of the Taliban and the Hizbe Islami of Gulbuddin Heckmatyar operating from Pakistani territory, stop the recruitment and training of Taliban cadres in camps operating in Pakistani territory and to prevent their infiltration into Afghanistan for attacking the NATO forces. In fact, Gen. Musharraf has been following a policy of calculated inaction against the Taliban leaders and cadres operating from Pakistani territory ever since the US-led forces went into action in Afghanistan on October 7, 2001. The US used to close its eyes to it so long as he was co-operating against Al Qaeda. His co-operation against Al Qaeda has declined since August last year.

5. The last instance of co-operation by Musharraf against Al Qaeda was in the beginning of August last when the Pakistani agencies arrested Rashid Rauf, a Mirpuri from Birmingham, UK, whom they projected as close to Al Qaeda. It was reported that it was he who gave the information about a plot of Al Qaeda to blow up a number of US-bound planes originating from the UK. An announcement about the discovery of this plot and the arrest of a number of Pakistani-origin residents of the UK in this connection was made by the British Police on August 10, 2006. Since then, Musharraf has been avoiding action on a British request for handing him over to them for interrogation. Reliable sources in Pakistan say that he has made the handing-over of Rashid Rauf conditional on the British arresting and handing over some Baloch nationalist elements living in the UK. The British are reportedly not prepared to do this.

7. Since the so-called peace agreement signed by him with the pro-Taliban tribal leaders of North Waziristan in September last year, he has called off all ground-based operations in this area ----whether directed against the local tribals, or against the Taliban or against the remnants of Al Qaeda. He has been content with a promise made by the tribal leaders that they would not allow the Taliban and Al Qaeda elements to infiltrate into Afghanistan and attack the NATO forces. But even this commitment---of a dubious nature--- has not been kept by them. They are now saying that their commitment was that they would not allow these foreign elements to pose any threat to Pakistani security forces and nationals in Pakistani territory. They deny any commitment not to allow them to operate in Afghan territory.

8. Earlier, in March 2005, Musharraf had entered into a similar peace agreement with the pro-Taliban tribal leaders of South Waziristan and has now been negotiating a similar peace agreement with the pro-Taliban tribal leaders of the Bajaur Agency. Taking advantage of the suspension of the military operations in South and North Waziristan, Al Qaeda has set up its own training camps there, which are different from those of the Taliban already existing. In these training camps, not only Al Qaeda cadres meant for operations against the NATO forces in Afghanistan, but also old cadres and new recruits meant for operations in Somalia and elsewhere are reportedly being trained by Arab, Chechen and Uzbeck instructors.

9. Al Qaeda has in recent months shot down at least seven --- possibly eight --- US helicopters in Iraq. Initially, when they sustained one or two losses, the Americans tended to believe that those were random successes with small arms and ammunition. The repeated successes of Al Qaeda in Iraq and the examination of the videos disseminated by it after some of the strikes have brought out that these helicopters were brought down---despite the expert evasive action taken by the specially trained US pilots--- by specially trained terrorists of Al Qaeda with the help of surface-to-air missiles. The techniques used by them were similar to the techniques taught by the US to the Afghan Mujahideen in the 1980s for use against the Soviet helicopters. These techniques had not been used by the Iraqi resistance fighters and Al Qaeda terrorists against the US helicopters during the last three years. They have started using them only during the last three or four months---indicating the infiltration into Iraq of terrorists specially trained in anti-helicopter warfare. The Pakistani sources say that the Americans seem to suspect that these elements were trained in the Al Qaeda training camps in North Waziristan and then infiltrated into Iraq.

10. Both Al Qaeda and the Neo Taliban have stepped up their anti-US propaganda and PSYWAR. While Al Qaeda had been showing signs of sophistication even earlier for the last two years, the Neo Taliban has recently been showing similar sophistication. Such sophisticated propaganda material cannot be produced in the tribal areas of Afghanistan, where there are no facilities for their production. All indicators are that the material is being produced in Pakistani territory with the help of Pakistani experts and disseminated from there. The Pakistani agencies have not taken action to identify those involved in the production and dissemination of the propaganda and PSYWAR material and neutralise them.

11. The Americans, who had been keeping their eyes closed to the Pakistani collusion with the Neo Taliban in the past, are no longer prepared to do so in view of the sharp increase in its activities in Southern and Eastern Afghanistan last year and its threats of an even more ferocious offensive starting from the forthcoming spring. Musharraf's repeated suggestions for talks with the Neo Taliban and a peace agreement with it by the Hamid Karzai Government similar to the two agreements signed by him with the tribal leaders of Waziristan have convinced the junior and middle-level NATO officers in Afghanistan that he is decreasingly acting as the front-line ally in the war against terrorism and increasingly acting as the launderer of the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

12. The Pakistani sources say that during his talks with Musharraf, Cheney said that while the Bush Administration still stood by its long-term commitment to support Pakistan and the Musharraf regime, this commitment is likely to become untenable if his security agencies continued to avoid action against the Taliban and Al Qaeda. He also drew his attention to the concerns expressed in the Democrat-controlled Congress over the perceived inaction of his Government against not only the Taliban, but also against Al Qaeda.

13. The US has not yet come to a parting of the ways with Musharraf. It still considers him a very good bet in Pakistan and in its war against terrorism. But, it no longer considers him the best bet and would not hesitate to consider other options if Musharraf continues to drag his feet.

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Any one remembers Mushi's speech on Jan 18 , 2007 ? Nothing but a shadow under the lantern !