joey2

nitin....noone is blaming ISI.
get this in your head.

musharaff himself admitted there has been incidents in borders which went past his orders.

its a more complicated issue.

Govt should do investigation and should submit it to "BOTH GOVT"
thats all.

Akshay

If a nation which doesn't have guts enough to protest killing of its own innocent civilians by US forces but rather joins them in their hunt.. and you are expecting them not be sick?

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nitinjindal83

Archer,

I hope your argument that hindu extremists are not involved in this is right. Call it my nature, but I would feel more safe if it is based on actual facts. The best way to get the facts is to start objectively exploring all reasonable possibilities. Thats all.

nitin

Blademaster

I don't care who were killed. The point was that innocent civilians were killed. Even if some of those civilians were not innocent and could be jehadists, the perpertrators who did this did it on their own and with no authority from the government or the people or had no causi belli to carry out this kind of attack.

This attack is destabilising for India as a whole. If we want to go after the Pakistanis, there must be a consensus first and we must declare war and only then we can go after the Pakistanis, not this type of sneaky cowardly attack.

That being said, I remain highly suspicious that it was a RSS or VHP attack. They have not shown in the past to be capable of such attacks. The only ones who were capable of such attacks are jehadists or Muslim terrorists. Moreover, nobody really knew that there were Pakistanis on the train or not. It was just a target, a very political one. My first suspects are the jehadists groups or Muslim terrorists who wanted to incite tensions between Pakistan and India and derail the peace process or the temporary ceasefire. I am guessing that they do not like the way the Pakistani government is going or leaning.

Akshay

Who are those hindu extremists who have perfected the art of detonating IEDs? This kind of attack would need proper training in handling detonators which cannot be done without previous experiences or trials/training.

Archer

More tosh! Till date no Hindu organization in 60 plus years has ever attacked an Indian state unit or rebelled against the state. Nor have they ever used anything as sophisticated as IEDs or RDX or had weapons and explosive training of this nature. Nor have they taken to institutionalised terrorism. Yet you insist that your nature wants "actual facts"- so how does one prove a negative? You wish to hand the actual perpetrators a propoganda victory by accusing the very folks they wish to implicate. How silly is that??
How can a possibility be reasonable when it flies in the face of all contemporary and past evidence?
You sound as logical as those conspiracy theorists who for the sake of "objectivity" want it to be investigated as to how Mossad didnt do 9/11. Merely explore, for the sake of completeness. Do you understand how far fetched and silly such rumour mongering is?

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ainspiron

When malegaon happened everyone was shouting hindu extremist.Turned out to be SIMI.
I think this attack is in line with that.
Mumbai blast-Peace process continued.Most killed were hindus.
May be if muslims are killed then their will be riots and peace process will die.Didnt work
Now this. Well lets kill pakistani's.May be this will stop the peace process.
This attack has the hallmark of SIMI and LeT

Archer

The Left and professional mullah lovers in India desparately want a Hindu terror attack. That will prove that SIMI is not so bad, that muslims are unfairly targeted, and that India is under threat from hindu fanatics and "communal forces from the hindu right". So the Left led the charge on Malegaon, Sabrang, Frontline, Praful Bidwai, Brinda Karat all fulminated...
End result...zero.
The average LeT agent is prepared to kill, has received paramilitary training and is fully committed.
The average Hindutvadi knows little more than to engage in fisticuffs, raise slogans and at riot time, engage in mob violence.
There is no comparison between the two (thankfully!).

I concur.

SC recently banned SIMI again. Revenge. LeT is also against any Indo-Pak rapprochment.

Tronic

Why are people being so hostile to Nitin?

He is speaking the mere possibilities, and there is a possibility that Hindu extremists carried out these attacks, he is not saying they did but there is a POSSIBILITY.

No one can be ruled out.

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raj

I may be called a fundamentalist for saying this but i would go ahead and say it

why is it that HINDUS(it was mostly HINDUS) who die in bombay blast get meager sums like 1-2 lakh and these guys get 10 lakh, why is it??????

Lalu announces Rs 10 lakh relief for victims-India-NEWS-The Times of India

Not only that
WHY ???????????????????????????????

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saw this in some site dont remember the name tough

Tronic

Most of the Indians killed were Army and security personnel. They died on duty trying to protect the passengers in the train. And most of them were also Hindu, so religion can't even be cried after here.

Archer

Because it is offensive and speculative hyperbole, which causes rumour mongering.

Tronic this is ultimate BS, no offence intended. This merely plays into the hands of the propogandists who intend to paint the hindu "extremists" as responsible when there is NO proof that they are. The possibility of any Hindu group having carried this out is beyond the pale, they have never committed any act of this nature- we are talking of terrorism against the state here, and neither do they have the means or motive to do so. There are three things that matter:

Means: Zilch- not a single Hindu group has moved beyond the trishul, gupti stage.
Motive: Hindu conservatives support the peace process for the most part, since Vajpayee started it.
Historical record: Zilch. Till date no Hindu group has ever been caught acting against the state, and why should they- they consider themselves the guardians of the state as fixated as their POV is.

The point is some responsibility is essential when discussing. Within minutes of a terror attack, when SIMI has just been banned by the SC (again), within a year of multiple attacks by LeT which has openly stated it is against the peace process and several reports of the ISI being disenchanted as well, and a terror attack on an Indo-Pak train is based on "hindu extremists" and its "possibility that must be examined"? What kind of rumour mongering is this?

By evaluating such a bizarre claim, one gives it credence. Next report, India investigates "possible hindu extremists bombing train", plastered all over the world and it becomes "fact".

Tronic

Huh? Possibilities of Islamists behind it is not offensive, but when the possibility of Hindu extremists is said, it becomes offensive and a taboo??? Face the reality, anyone can be behind it.

No one has said that Hindu extremists are responsible, it is a POSSIBILITY that they are responsible...

Oh man... I don't even want to start, maybe if I were born a Hindu, but if I say something now, I will become a Hindu hater, right?


And that is also mere speculation and not proof that they are behind it...


Oh wow, lol... The possibility of Hindu involvement can't even be discussed now...

No one is plastering anything, it is still a free for all; ANYONE can be behind these blasts, and that includes Hindu extremists...

Archer

To understand how rumour mills work and how they are used for propoganda, google for chattisinghpora in kashmir. A bunch of LeT types comes in and slaughters Sikhs in a Kashmir village. Then we have the usual media frenzy (for two days). The sikh survivors wont talk to anyone they dont know- they are scared of more attacks on them. The public outrage is however real. Then comes Pankaj Mishra, a Leftist who writes for the NYTimes- with zero evidence, he "hypothizes" that it "could be" Indian Army personnel or surrendered militants who attacked the Sikhs. Why? Because the attackers wore camouflage. Overnight, Pak militants gained a propoganda victory. From the CS Massacre by militants, it became massacre by "unknown forces" allegedly security forces, a "mystery" and so on and so forth.
It gets worse. Bill Clinton when writing about his visit to India, mentions the CS massacre was by "hindu extremists". Hindu extremists in Kashmir, where they have been ethnically cleansed. So people complain, and the edit is pulled. This is how rumours start and are sustained because some people are too stupid and too idealogically inclined to blame "hindu extremists" for every darn thing. Consider: CS incident- LeT kill Sikhs, first blamed on Army, then surrendered Militants- and out of nowhere, since India is majority Hindu, some foreign reporter puts 2+3=9 and puts "hindu extremists" as responsible, and a bio of a former President of the US carries it without crosschecking.

This is how myths persist.

And finale: Two American reporters visited CS a few years later, the villagers then openly stated that the attackers were muslim and LeT/Hezb Muj members. But did it matter, was it reported? Nope.

What was reported? Some local villagers who were gunned down by a rogue IA unit, and passed off as the CS terrorists when questioned, (the IA troops were arrested and sentenced), but it took the airwaves and the myth persists.

Plain stupid.

Tronic

So if you are afraid of myths spreading then no point of discussing at all... SOMEONE did it. Period.

Leave the rest to the Sarkar to figure out.