Are Muslims in Britain Living in a Police State?

**Parihaka** · 02-09-2007, 21:30 PM

Quote:

Iman Kurdi, ikurdi@bridgethegulf.com

Has Britain become a police state for Muslims? No, nowhere near. Just ask anyone who has lived in a real police state. Ask any mother whose son was taken in the middle of the night and disappeared without a trace. Ask any political prisoner who has been interrogated and tortured just for questioning the status quo. Ask any ordinary citizen who happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time and found himself in jail for years on end without trial, without any recourse to justice. That is living in a police state, not what is happening to Muslims in Britain today.

And yet it cannot be denied that Muslims today find themselves stuck between a rock and a hard place. The knee-jerk reactions of British Muslims to last week’s arrests in Birmingham show just how embattled many Muslims now feel. Within moments of the arrests, people were talking of conspiracy theories, elaborate plots and the demonization of Muslims. The idea that there could have been a genuine plot to kidnap and behead a British Muslim soldier was not even considered — and yet it is hardly far-fetched.

Lurid details of the alleged plot were leaked to the press prior to the arrests. So we know not only that the plot was to kidnap a Muslim soldier but that the aim was to film him being tortured and murdered and to then release the film on the Internet. We know too that a young soldier who recently returned from a tour of duty in Iraq had agreed to be used as bait, allowing the investigators to mount an extensive surveillance operation. The terrorists are said to have compiled a list of the names and addresses of 25 British Muslims serving with the armed forces. They were about to strike. The police moved in and raided the addresses in Sparkbrook, a suburb of Birmingham, arresting nine people.

This plot takes terrorism in Britain two stages further. First it moves from bombing to kidnapping. Since terrorists copy each other, it is to be expected — and indeed it is usually the case — that what we see happening in one part of the world soon becomes part of the terrorist modus operandi elsewhere. Kidnappings are unfortunately common in terrorist warfare. In Iraq alone there are 30-40 abductions daily.

Second the target is a Muslim. As a newspaper headline shouted out: “Now Muslims are terror target!” Of course Muslims have been a target all along. Muslims have regularly been killed by Al-Qaeda and its imitators. But this takes it a step further. This plot aims to drive a wedge between Muslims. It is one more instance of the terrorists dividing the world into believers and apostates.

You don’t have to go far to see examples of this thinking. Abu Izzadeen — a so-called cleric who was arrested by the British police on Friday — was seen on tape calling Muslim soldiers apostates who deserve to be killed: “So those so-called enemies to Allah who join the British government because remember the British government, my dear Muslim brothers, are crusaders, crusaders come to kill and rape Muslims. Whoever joins them he who joins the British Army, he is a mortal kafir. And his only hokum is for his head to be removed.”

The alleged plot is both grizzly and terrifying; yet the response of many Muslims was denial.

That the police in Britain have lost credibility is clear. There are a number of reasons for this, the most obvious being the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes in 2005 and the raids in Forest Gate a year later. The first planted an image that just looking like a terrorist was enough to get you killed. Here was an innocent man, not even Muslim or Arab or Asian but Brazillian, his dark skin, dark hair and eyes sufficient to fit the profile, sufficiently close to grainy CCTV footage for a policeman to falsely identify him as a potential suspect and set off a chain of events that led to the tragedy of his death. The fact that he was shot seven times in the head whilst being restrained only serving to add to both the tragedy of his death and the sense of insecurity and threat among Muslims in Britain.

The Forest Gate raid saw 250 police officers, dressed in protective suits and gas masks, descend on this London suburb in a raid reminiscent of a Hollywood action movie. The raid was triggered by intelligence that alleged a terrorist plot to use chemical weapons. Two brothers were arrested, one of whom was accidentally shot in the shoulder during the raid. Both were innocent, both were released without charge. No trace of chemical weapons was found. The police later apologized for the hurt caused but the damage was done. It reinforced an idea among Muslims that they were being persecuted.

This state of mind is best exemplified by the words of Mohammed Naseem, the chairman of Birmingham Central Mosque, on hearing of the arrests last week. Not only was he certain that all of the men arrested were innocent but he believed that all of this was an elaborate plot by the British government to “strike terror in the hearts of Muslim people” and that the government was “pursuing a policy of maintaining a perception of threat to justify the draconian anti-terror laws they have been passing.” Of course the men arrested may well be innocent. As I write, five of them have been charged. We will have to wait until their trial to establish their guilt or innocence. But three others have been released without charge. One of them, Abu Bakr, called Britain a police state for Muslims. You can understand his anger. He spent a week in custody, unaware of why he had been arrested, barely questioned by the police and then only asked obscure questions that did not make any sense to him, before being released without charge.

Of course if Britain were a police state, he would not appear on the BBC to tell us of his ordeal, but that is not the point. What is of interest here is the genuine belief among so many Muslims that they are being unfairly targeted.

The police are aware of their lack of credibility among many Muslims and have been treading very carefully, anxious not to inflame community relations. They distributed 5,000 leaflets in Sparkbrook detailing the police operation and affirming that they were not targeting a particular community but pursuing a specific group of criminals. David Shaw, the assistant chief constable in charge of this investigation has also been at pains to stress the support the police have received from the Muslim community.

But this does not stop many Muslims believing they are being persecuted. As Abu Bakr put it on his release, terror laws “are designed specifically for Muslims.” And here lies the essence of the problem facing the police. How do you separate the racial component from the criminal threat? The terrorists exist. They happen to be Muslim. They happen to use an extreme brand of Islamic thinking to justify their actions. The terrorists have hijacked and sullied the name of Islam for their purposes. Is it any wonder that the civil liberties of Muslims have been among the first casualties?

T_igger_cs_30 · 02-10-2007, 00:04 AM

Quote:

They happen to use an extreme brand of Islamic thinking to justify their actions. The terrorists have hijacked and sullied the name of Islam for their purposes. Is it any wonder that the civil liberties of Muslims have been among the first casualties?

A good thought provoking article, the quote I have taken from it sums it all up for me, the Muslims have to help themselves, they cannot have it both ways.
Have the Police lost credibility? It would appear so, but they are in a rock and a hard place " this extreme brand of Islamic thinking" creates fear(yes that is the intent) and if military men think that "rules of engagement" tie there hands at times and makes a difficult job even more difficult in a war zone, imagine how the Police feel when they are just carrying out normal civil policing duties in a non combat zone.
I know from experience being asked to be a Policeman on certain tours in the early years of my army career caused so much confusion, simply because I was not trained as a Policeman. We ask a lot of our Policemen in this day and age and at times they are a forgotten element in the war on terror and the easiest to critisise.And I am sure that is not only in the UK.
I will finish with a question, does it not seem, given todays climate that if 8 men are arrested, then 3 released and 5 charged, then something is being done right dont you think ?............

Callmecur · 02-10-2007, 11:09 AM

Answer to the thread question - No, muslims are not living in a police state otherwise they would not be released following investigations, as usual they are feeling sorry for themselves for something of their own making - albeit a small minority but mud sticks as it did to the Irish during the 70's to the 90's. Both my son's are policemen and they are forever having to arrest either young asians or west indians for all kinds of crimes. On the whole, young whites are either seeing the errors of their ways or are very crafty and don't get caught.

T_igger_cs_30 · 02-10-2007, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Callmecur

Answer to the thread question - No, muslims are not living in a police state otherwise they would not be released following investigations, as usual they are feeling sorry for themselves for something of their own making - albeit a small minority but mud sticks as it did to the Irish during the 70's to the 90's.

Quote:

Both my son's are policemen

and they are forever having to arrest either young asians or west indians for all kinds of crimes. On the whole, young whites are either seeing the errors of their ways or are very crafty and don't get caught.

Gotchya

Srirangan · 02-10-2007, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parihaka

Are Muslims in Britain Living in a Police State?

To them whiners,
Don't like it? Feel free to get out.

Ray · 02-10-2007, 13:07 PM

I agree that the Moslems have brought this state onto themselves and they are to blame for their miseries.

It must be stifling for them, but then is there a way out?

Maybe if they openly condemn, as also educate their people to feel for their nation of birth rather than hanging on to the incorrect path taken by some people and organisations of their land of origin or do not permit their mullahs to go ballistic and seditious, then things can change.

However, the religion being all pervasive and dependant on the mullah edicts, it is a difficult task for the Moslems to stand up and be counted!

T_igger_cs_30 · 02-10-2007, 13:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

I agree that the Moslems have brought this state onto themselves and they are to blame for their miseries.

It must be stifling for them, but then is there a way out?

Maybe if they openly condemn, as also educate their people to feel for their nation of birth rather than hanging on to the incorrect path taken by some people and organisations of their land of origin or do not permit their mullahs to go ballistic and seditious, then things can change.

Quote:

However, the religion being all pervasive and dependant on the mullah edicts, it is a difficult task for the Moslems to stand up and be counted

!

And there we have it, the majority of Muslims live in fear, so the rest of the world suffer's

Elbmek · 02-11-2007, 12:19 PM

Quite the opposite, to answer thread title. I live very near Birmingham, a city that has more "ethnic" than local caucasians. The police will more likely arrest anyone who dares to speak out against the muslim community as "racial remarks". People here are not allowed a voice, instead the police try and keep the status quo. They spend more time involved in community relations than crime detection/prevention. Smoothing the way is their train of thought.

Therefore, to move as they did, against members of the muslim community, must have meant some very hard intel on the crime being planned. Whether those being held are guilty as intimated, is beyond my sphere of knowledge, but there is no smoke without fire and "something" is very definitely going on.

The problem is that we allow such insurgents to live here for fear of upsetting the greater whole. And deportation of people who do not conform to the law of the land seems not to be an option here.

Nearly every country in the world gets rid of people they find detrimental to the common good and not an eye is turned but here the authorities seem too scared to do anything for fear of what someone might say!

Ray · 02-11-2007, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Nearly every country in the world gets rid of people they find detrimental to the common good and not an eye is turned but here the authorities seem too scared to do anything for fear of what someone might say!

Not India.

We are the true followers of Great Britain, the Mother country!

Assam and Bengal have had the demography changed in reverse along the border and even well inside and we have legitimised them as 'citizens'!

Mumbai is teeming with Bangladeshi and none can do a damn about it!

But then India is secular!

And the Mahatma (Gandhi) is our icon!

Elbmek · 02-11-2007, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

Not India.

We are the true followers of Great Britain, the Mother country!

India was a civilised nation long before we threw off our furs and picked up a sword. Her history is ancient and magnificent. Its just a shame politics gets in the way of progress.

dave lukins · 02-11-2007, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Srirangan

To them whiners,
Don't like it? Feel free to get out.

Srirangan ,most are British born and their families have been here for many generations and it's this that is most disturbing

Ray · 02-11-2007, 13:01 PM

Dave,

If they are British, then you have a knotty problem!

But then, they should be handled with an iron fist without the velvet glove!

dave lukins · 02-11-2007, 13:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

Dave,

If they are British, then you have a knotty problem!

But then, they should be handled with an iron fist without the velvet glove!

Agreed Brigadier Sir,however,and there is always an however, Human rights,PC and do-gooders,and the other organisations who protect these people are always the first to jump on the band wagon and scream "discrimination"

Elbmek · 02-11-2007, 13:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave lukins

Srirangan ,most are British born and their families have been here for many generations and it's this that is most disturbing

This is quite true but, when the chips were down, and it looked like conscription prior to Desert storm, they were all sent home to their "home" country rather than risk the chance of actually having to fight for "their" country. Thousands of teenage and older males were flown "home" to Pakistan.

Ray · 02-12-2007, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave lukins

Agreed Brigadier Sir,however,and there is always an however, Human rights,PC and do-gooders,and the other organisations who protect these people are always the first to jump on the band wagon and scream "discrimination"

Well, there are some real stiff laws, I believe, in place already in the UK.

And there is enough clamour of discrimination that have been weathered.

It is time to implement those laws more vigorously and since the wail is already on, tightening the screws would not make much difference in the decibel levels. As I see it, it would make no difference to the current govt since Blair has ensured that Labour is six feet underground! I wouldn't be surprised if there is a hung Parliament the next time around!

02-10-2007, 13:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 28,240 Country:	I agree that the Moslems have brought this state onto themselves and they are to blame for their miseries. It must be stifling for them, but then is there a way out? Maybe if they openly condemn, as also educate their people to feel for their nation of birth rather than hanging on to the incorrect path taken by some people and organisations of their land of origin or do not permit their mullahs to go ballistic and seditious, then things can change. However, the religion being all pervasive and dependant on the mullah edicts, it is a difficult task for the Moslems to stand up and be counted! __________________ "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination." I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to. HAKUNA MATATA

02-11-2007, 12:19 PM	#8 (permalink)
Elbmek *Military Professional* Join Date: 12-31-06 Location: Sutton Coldfield Posts: 441 Country:	Quite the opposite, to answer thread title. I live very near Birmingham, a city that has more "ethnic" than local caucasians. The police will more likely arrest anyone who dares to speak out against the muslim community as "racial remarks". People here are not allowed a voice, instead the police try and keep the status quo. They spend more time involved in community relations than crime detection/prevention. Smoothing the way is their train of thought. Therefore, to move as they did, against members of the muslim community, must have meant some very hard intel on the crime being planned. Whether those being held are guilty as intimated, is beyond my sphere of knowledge, but there is no smoke without fire and "something" is very definitely going on. The problem is that we allow such insurgents to live here for fear of upsetting the greater whole. And deportation of people who do not conform to the law of the land seems not to be an option here. Nearly every country in the world gets rid of people they find detrimental to the common good and not an eye is turned but here the authorities seem too scared to do anything for fear of what someone might say! __________________ Never lie, then you have nothing to try and remember.

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02-10-2007, 11:09 AM	#3 (permalink)
Callmecur *Military Professional* Join Date: 01-09-07 Location: Eastern England Posts: 228 Country:	Answer to the thread question - No, muslims are not living in a police state otherwise they would not be released following investigations, as usual they are feeling sorry for themselves for something of their own making - albeit a small minority but mud sticks as it did to the Irish during the 70's to the 90's. Both my son's are policemen and they are forever having to arrest either young asians or west indians for all kinds of crimes. On the whole, young whites are either seeing the errors of their ways or are very crafty and don't get caught.

02-11-2007, 13:01 PM	#12 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 28,240 Country:	Dave, If they are British, then you have a knotty problem! But then, they should be handled with an iron fist without the velvet glove!

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