Kosovo - Page 9

Danielk · 04-04-2007, 17:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlad95

Dont get me wrong, i dont hate you because you are Croatian...i am half Croatian myself and my partner is Croatian...but this debate with you seems to go back into idiotic loops. No valid arguments are put up except "Milosevic started it all." I think its pointless going through this with you.
No hard feelings champ.

Yea, the war ended long time ago, so i think we should leave it at that.
I was born in australia, parents are croatian.

I'm just trying to learn more about having these debates since i dont know as much as you as i'm only 18 lol..

But yea no hard feelings here, i like to learn.

**Ironduke** · 04-04-2007, 17:44 PM

Garry, figures of 70% unemployment in Kosovo by the mid-90's are almost universally accepted, and the mass emigration from Kosovo as a result of repression and unemployment speaks for itself. Hundreds of thousands of Kosovars left the country to work abroad, unable to find work at home.

MrFirst · 04-04-2007, 17:52 PM

Only? From which times this old age began to be called "only"??? Babies appear in such age!

Danielk · 04-04-2007, 18:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFirst

Only? From which times this old age began to be called "only"??? Babies appear in such age!

Well most people here are older who have had experiences in war etc..

Vlad95 · 04-04-2007, 23:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danielk

Yea, the war ended long time ago, so i think we should leave it at that.
I was born in australia, parents are croatian.

I'm just trying to learn more about having these debates since i dont know as much as you as i'm only 18 lol..

But yea no hard feelings here, i like to learn.

Nice, im in ozland too at the moment

Garry · 04-05-2007, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironduke

Garry, figures of 70% unemployment in Kosovo by the mid-90's are almost universally accepted, and the mass emigration from Kosovo as a result of repression and unemployment speaks for itself. Hundreds of thousands of Kosovars left the country to work abroad, unable to find work at home.

Hi Ironduke, I know little on Kosovo issue. Just went out to google and come to understanding that this area was damn poor prior to conflict with 18% of population illiterate!!! and it was subsidized 90% from Yugoslavian budget... and most of population live in rural area (I don't state this.... this what I read here Tomislav Popovic, Kosovo: economic, social and demographic causes of the crisis )

I did google and did not find 70%.... but still don't make any conslusions (googling is just part of the information).... to me 70% looks like too big for rural area where people are usually selfemployed. Kosovo is very agricultural area so unemployement is something very hard to access there....

Anyway... after reading that report I realize that Colonel might have BIG point about economic sustainability of that state

SRB · 04-06-2007, 17:15 PM

Ironduke: "I'm not stating that every other side other than the Serbs was blameless in the Yugoslav wars. What I am stating, is that Milosevic played the primary role in re-igniting ethnic tensions in Yugoslavia and unleashing the chain of events that followed, the first of which was the severe repression of the Kosovars beginning in the mid to late 80's which instilled a fear of similar measures and growing Serb nationalism in Slovenia, Croatia, and Bosnia."

This is great joke. Growing Serb nationalism in Slovenia. If we were so bad in Slovenia

why than 50.000 Slovenians came in Belgrade for every new year?
Also I would always go in any part of Slovenia with my car and my belgrade car plates but I would make good thinking if need to go in Split(in Croatia) with my car plates.
In Slovenia war was between JNA and Slovenian territorial defence force, no Serb paramilitary. There is small number of Serbs in Slovenia and because in last 100 year Slovenian Serbs didnt had problems in Slovenia majorty are loyal citizens of Slovenia.
There is problem with large number of erased from list of Slovenian citizens which in 1990 said that they are Yugoslovians but they could stay and work in Slovenia in fact they still work there.

**Ironduke** · 04-06-2007, 18:04 PM

Garry, the Colonel has a point about the economic sustainability of the Kosovar economy, the fact remains that Milosevic instituted highly repressive measures in Kosovo beginning in the 80's, which vastly worsened the situation and made the other republics nervous.

SRB, you missed the point entirely. I wasn't talking about Serbians in Slovenia, so I'll rephrase what I said:

Quote:

Milosevic played the primary role in re-igniting ethnic tensions in Yugoslavia and unleashing the chain of events that followed, the first of which was the severe repression of the Kosovars beginning in the mid to late 80's which instilled a fear of growing Serb nationalism and similar measures in the other Yugoslav republics.

Ray · 04-06-2007, 18:21 PM

Quote:

Wahhabism: from Vienna to Bosnia

The King Fahd Mosque in Sarajevo (ISN)
Image: ISN

Local media reports trace the financial and ideological center of Bosnia's radical Wahhabi movement to Vienna, while the moderate Islamic community prepares for an intensifying battle of influence.

By Anes Alic in Sarajevo for ISN Security Watch (06/04/07)

Only the funeral of former Bosnian Muslim leader and wartime Bosnian president Alija Izetbegovic had a larger crowd and more security than that of Jusuf Barcic, the informal leader of Bosnia’s radical Muslims of the Wahhabi movement.

More than 3,000 Wahhabis arrived in the northern city of Tuzla to attend the funeral held last weekend, and according to local media, almost half of them came from Slovenia, Kosovo, Macedonia and the Serbian region of Sandzak. A number also came from Western European countries, mostly from Austria, whose capital, Vienna, is said to be the Western financial and ideological center for the Bosnian Wahhabi movement.

More than 50 uniformed and undercover policemen monitored the funeral of Barcic, who died in a car accident in Tuzla on 30 March after hitting a light pole while speeding, according to the preliminary police report.

Barcic, a self-proclaimed sheikh, became known to the Bosnian public two months ago after he and his followers attempted to enter the central czar's mosque in Sarajevo to preach for a return to traditional Islam. Their attempt was prevented by Bosnian Islamic community officials, local worshipers and police. Shortly before that, however, Barcic and his followers had already occupied several mosques in the Tuzla region, clashing with local Muslims.

Barcic began preaching radical Islam after he returned from schooling in Saudi Arabia in 1999. In 2001, a local court sentenced him to seven months in jail for harassing his wife and her family, who left him after they returned home.
Vying for influence

Another incident earlier this year in the Serbian province of Sandzak, populated predominately by Muslims, at first seemed unrelated to the recent incidents in Tuzla and Sarajevo, led by Barcic. However, a police source close to the investigation last month suggested there could be a connection. The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said Bosnian radical Muslims, as well as those from Serbia, were being financed and led by Bosnian Muslims living in Vienna and other Austrian cities, as well as by Saudi Arabia.

The source said that he believed, based on cooperation with the Serbian police, that the recent incidents were not related to terror activities but represented an attempt to increase the influence of the Wahhabi movement in Bosnia and Sandzak, or even to create a parallel Islamic institution in the two Balkan nations.

It appears that both Wahhabi movements were financed and led by Bosnian and Serbian Wahhabi clerics living in Vienna.

Bosnian Islamic community officials and police accuse former Bosnian Muslim cleric Muhamed Porca, who runs the Vienna-based Islamic community administrative unit, of serving as the financial and ideological supporter of Barcic and his movement.

Porca, who was Barcic’s colleague at university in Saudi Arabia calls for the creation of a parallel Islamic community in Bosnia, which would lean toward radical Islam. Some Bosnian Islamic community officials also accused Porca of organizing and financing visits to Bosnia for radical Muslims from Germany and Austria.

Bosnian media and Islamic community officials also named another Vienna-based Bosnian cleric, Adnan Buzar, as a main supporter of Barcic's movement. Buzar is the son-in-law of Palestinian Sabri al-Banna, also known as Abu Nidal, the founder of the Fatah Revolutionary Council and the most wanted international terrorist in late 1980s. Al-Banna was killed in Iraq in 2002.

In the late 1980s, Swiss authorities blocked Abu Nidal’s Société de Banque Suisse and Credit Suisse account and its US$18 million balance. In January 1998, the accounts were unfrozen and Buzar’s wife and Abu Nidal’s daughter, Badija Khal'il, withdrew US$8 million. Badija Khal'il was granted Bosnian citizenship in 1995 through the Bosnian embassy in Vienna.
Radical vs moderate

At the same time as Barcic and his followers were attempting to enter the Sarajevo mosque, clashing with local Muslims, Serbian police were raiding a Wahhabi training camp on a mountain near the town of Novi Pazar in Sandzak.

On 19 March, police arrested four people at the camp, while one managed to escape. They discovered a cache of weapons, ammunition and plastic explosives with detonators.

Some Serbian media reported that those arrested in Sandzak were preparing attacks on Islamic community officials and some moderate Serbian Muslim politicians. Those reports have never been independently confirmed.

But there are signs that the struggle between radical and moderate Muslims is indeed brewing. Several clashes have been reported lately in Sandzak between Wahhabis and moderate Muslims. In one such clash last November, three people were wounded in a shootout in Novi Pazar.

According to Serbian media reports, the alleged financier of the Sandzak Wahhabis is a Vienna-born Serbian Muslim named Effendia Nedzad Balkan, also known as Ebu Muhammed, the leader of the Sahaba Mosque in Vienna. Balkan, along with six other Wahhabis, three of them Austrian citizens, was involved in the beating of Bosnian Serb Mihajlo Kisic in Bosnian city of Brcko in 2006. After a short trial, the seven were given symbolic sentences on parole and some of them returned to Vienna.
The road from Vienna

Several Islamic aid agencies were based in Vienna during the 1992-1995 war in Bosnia. The Bosnian government opened a bank account in the Austrian capital, while nearly 100 Islamic fighters were granted Bosnian citizenship through the embassy in Vienna.

Barcic himself traveled to the Austrian capital several times during the war as the representative of the Vienna-based International Islamic Relief Organization (IGASA) for the Bosnian city of Zenica.

Austria became the major logistical and financial center for the Bosnian government during the 1990s - an arrangement that allowed the Islamists to create a system for arming the Bosnian Army, transferring foreign fighters and weapons via the Slovenian city of Maribor and the Croatian port city of Split.

The biggest financier of Bosnian Muslim defense was the Vienna-based Third World Relief Agency (TWRA), through whose account in the Austrian Die Erste Osterreich Bank flowed some US$350 million in donations from Islamic countries between 1992 and 1995. About half of that money was used for financing the Bosnian government.

The TWRA was established in 1987 by a Sudanese native, Al-Fatih Ali Hassanein, considered a close friend of Izetbegovic.

In July 1992, a couple of months after the war started, Hassanein was authorized by the Bosnian leadership to serve as the financial representative of the Bosnian state, while TWRA allowed him to collect donations for refugees in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

In 1996, some two years after Hassanein fled Austria and settled in Turkey, Austrian police raided TWRA’s offices and bank accounts. Investigations showed that the majority of the cash originated in the Middle East, with Saudi Arabia as the largest contributor, followed by Iran, Pakistan, Turkey, Brunei and Malaysia.

Also, after the September 2001 attack in New York City, Washington ordered an investigation into all Islamic humanitarian relief agencies in Bosnia, including the TWRA.

After news of the Austrian investigation was leaked to the Bosnian media, the public learned more about how that money was spent.

Close to 12 high-ranking Bosnian officials had access to the money, including Izetbegovic, Bosnian army chief of logistics and member of TWRA’s supervisory board, Hasan Cengic, and Husein Zivalj, former Bosnian ambassador in Austria and former member of TWRA’s Executive Board.

In one document confiscated by Austrian police, Izetbegovic authorized Hassanein to give Hasan Cengic 300,000 German marks for the needs of the Bosnian army. The letter was handwritten on a Vienna Hilton Hotel notepad.

According to ISN Security Watch's source from the commission for citizenship revision, some of those involved in TWRA’s work in Vienna during and after the war are also under suspicion of granting Bosnian citizenships to foreigners from Islamic countries under questionable circumstances.

In addition, the source said the Bosnian Foreign Ministry had noted the disappearance of some 300 blank Bosnian passports from the Vienna embassy during that time. The passports were stolen in 1993 from the embassy safe, but there was no sign that the safe had been broken into. The police source said a report was filed naming former embassy secretary Nadzisa Tabakovic as responsible.

He also said that in August 2002, the Federation Intelligence-Security Service (FOSS) notified the prosecutor's office and the Interior Ministry of suspicions that Hasan Cengic, Fatih el-Hasanein, Nadzisa Tabakovic, Husein Zivalj and several other Bosnian officials were involved in international organized crime, but the case was never prosecuted.

In the FOSS report, one case from 1994 is mentioned, in which Austrian financial police discovered suspicious money transfers on Bosnian embassy accounts. According to FOSS, police issued a “friendly” warning to embassy officials that if the money was not withdrawn in the next 24 hours, the account would be blocked. FOSS accused the above mentioned officials of immediately transferring the money to their private accounts. The money was never tracked after that.
Questionable citizenships

In the applications for Bosnian citizenship, obtained by ISN Security Watch, some wrote that they would go to help Bosnian Muslims during the war, while also contained a note saying “recommended by TWRA.”

However, the police source close to the commission's work said most of those who received Bosnian citizenship in embassies throughout the world, and especially in Vienna, never set foot in Bosnia, but used the passports for easier travel, as at the time a Bosnian passport made travel easier in Europe than some Middle Eastern passports.

However, issuing Bosnian citizenships to the Islamists has seriously damaged Bosnia's wartime reputation, especially when it comes to those foreign fighters who arrived here ostensibly to help Bosnian forces during the war, but more likely were here to gain more influence.

According to Bosnian media, the Bosnian embassy in Vienna even issued a passport in 1993 to Osama bin Laden, the leader of al-Qaida. Though no evidence has ever proven this, the damage to Bosnia's reputation was done.

Still, dozens of others who proved to be members of various militant groups did in fact receive Bosnian citizenship - and the public first heard about them when they were arrested in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq or Chechnya.

In 1999, Turkish authorities arrested Mehrez Aodouni while en route to Chechnya with a Bosnian passport. Aodouni was believed to be a close associate of bin Laden. After his arrest, the Bosnian government said his citizenship had been granted due to his membership in the Bosnian army, even though local media investigating the case found no evidence that he had fought in Bosnia.

Also, in 1997, Italian authorities arrested 14 people suspected of plotting to assassinate Pope John Paul II on his trip to Bologna. All of those arrested carried Bosnian passports and were reportedly members of the Algerian Armed Islamic Group (GIA). Just as in Aodouni’s case, there was no evidence for half of them that they had ever set foot in Bosnia.

Such indiscriminate granting of Bosnian citizenship is now the subject of the work of the Bosnian Commission for Citizenship Revision, which has so far revoked some 400 citizenships of naturalized Bosnians and plans to deport most of them.

In the meantime, the Bosnian Islamic Community has stepped up its defense against Wahhabism, threatening it with total isolation and even expulsion. The community’s head, Reis-ul-Ulema Mustafa Effendi Ceric, even visited Vienna and Serbia earlier this month to promote moderate Bosnian Islam. It was Effendi Ceric who said some two months ago that all the problems with radical Muslims in Bosnia were being imported from other countries, with the center being Vienna.

ISN Security Watch - Wahhabism: from Vienna to Bosnia

What started as an attempt to wipe out the Russian influence in East Europe has now turned into a greater threat!

How shortsighted can people be?

SRB · 04-06-2007, 20:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironduke

Garry, the Colonel has a point about the economic sustainability of the Kosovar economy, the fact remains that Milosevic instituted highly repressive measures in Kosovo beginning in the 80's, which vastly worsened the situation and made the other republics nervous.

SRB, you missed the point entirely. I wasn't talking about Serbians in Slovenia, so I'll rephrase what I said:

OK I didnt understand you.
Yes there was fear especially in Slovenia about situation on Kosovo but Milosevic did only what was right at that moment. Kosovo was trying to become republic and later to get independence when SFRJ start to collapse. We lost but 12 years later. His biggest misjudgment was that were soon bipolar world wouldnt exist. He knew that Croatians made very good connections in US and had full support in Germany. He count on USSR as counter to US and Germany.
There were also one good proposition form Slovenia it was asymmetric federation in fact it would be union of independent states, well Croatian and Serbian politicians didnt what this. Again it wouldnt solve problem of Kosovo or Bosnia but it would save mutually economic system and market. From todaz perspective it was best option but in that time it was demonstrate as Slovenian attempt to became independent and take all benefits from federation. All other states thought that Slovenia is using their resources which in realty wasnt try. To me all other states were jealous on Slovenian standard.

ShayGaetz · 02-27-2008, 18:45 PM

On October 24, 2000; former president of Yugoslavia, Vojislav Koštunica, admitted that Yugoslav security forces had committed genocide in Kosovo and that he was ready to take responsibility for crimes committed by his predecessor Slobodan Milosevic.

Serbian president Tadic today cannot dare suggest that Kosovars now must continue to suffer Serbian hegemony in silence?

In 1991, Seselj, the leader of the Serbian Radical Party boasted in Serbia’s parliament that his forces had "gouged the eyes out of a dozen Croats with rusty spoons" and claimed the only solution to Serbia's problems was to “cut the throat of every Croat and every Muslim”. Just last week, Seselj’s proxy only narrowly lost Serbia’s presidency in runoff elections.

Kosovars have suffered at a minimum, attempted genocide at the blood-soaked hands of Serb chauvinism; a genocide forestalled by NATO intervention as a sidelined UN impotently wrung its hands. How can the world even dare suggest that Kosovars suffer in silence under continued Serbian hegemony? Before Serbia can petition its claims, it must thoroughly purge itself of the evil notions of its crypto-Nazi nationalist leaders who even today continue to rant about Greater Serbia, Slav racial purity, an Orthodox crusade against Islam, and medieval Kosovo - Serbia's so-called Jerusalem.

Just like Germany a generation ago, Serbia too must reconcile itself with its woeful contribution to 20th Century history. Erasing the evils of “etnicko ciscenje" or "ethnic cleansing" will be a least a generation in coming. In the meantime, Kosovo must be given its freedom!

ShayGaetz · 02-27-2008, 18:50 PM

U. N. envoy Martti Ahtisaari, mediating yearlong talks between ethnic Albanians and Serbs submitted his final report highlighting UN failures in Kosovo and recommending Kosovar independence. His efforts provoked a new international row in the UN Security Council where some members of the international community behaved like scavengers picking at the bones of genocide’s victims!

Kosovo is sitting on one of Europe’s most lucrative mineral deposits. The potential wealth of northern Kosovo’s Trepça Complex coveted by Serbia is vast! It alone could solve either nation’s desperate economic problems. The debate is no longer about democratic decentralization; this is really about Serbian Lebensraum, as international interests divvy up the spoils of war.

Perhaps more telling is Russia’s indignant response to Ahtisaari’s diplomatic footnote that "Kosovo is a unique case that demands a unique solution. It does not create a precedent for other unresolved conflicts." Given its’ blood-soaked record in Chechnya, Russia fears precisely such UN precedent. If the UN can stymie the creation of a "Greater Serbia" built on genocide's charnel remains, Russian ambitions in former Soviet Union territories can be similarly thwarted. China is similarly worried.

It would appear that America and her new Balkan allies (including Macedonia and Montenegro) are about to force the issue by unilaterally granting de facto independence to Kosovo. America is yet again acting with honor; siding with the victims of genocide; who, this time, happen to be Muslim. Go figure!

ShayGaetz · 02-27-2008, 18:52 PM

some links:

cm.greekhelsinki.gr/index.php

Anti-Masonic Hate Stamps

Regarding WW II history:

President Tudjman (a Croatian hero of the Partisan movement in WW II) on more than one occasion lamented the fate of all who perished! I note that no Serbian leader has ever followed Croatia’s example and apologized for Serbian complicity in the Holocaust!

According to Parish monographs, the Yugoslav census records of 1946 as well as Serbian historians; it is clear that the Serbian population actually increased during World War II. This fact belies the Serbian contentions they were victims of an unprecedented holocaust, the horror of the Ustasi crimes notwithstanding!

The fate of the Croats is far less benign! By all accounts, the Croats (among other ethnic groups) suffered an acute reduction in population according to the same sources cited above. Furthermore, the slaughter continued long after July 1945. In the six years following the end of World War II, roughly one quarter of Yugoslavia’s population was jailed or exterminated as extolled in a speech to the Belgrade Parliament by Aleksandr Rankovic (chief of secret police) who boasted of the jailing and “liquidation” of over three million “enemies of the state”. (Yugoslav dailies: Borba & Politika; Feb 1, 1951)

Winston Churchill once remarked the Balkans have a propensity to produce more history than they can possibly digest!

04-04-2007, 17:44 PM	#122 (permalink)
Ironduke Burgomaster Join Date: 08-02-03 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 6,786 Country:	Garry, figures of 70% unemployment in Kosovo by the mid-90's are almost universally accepted, and the mass emigration from Kosovo as a result of repression and unemployment speaks for itself. Hundreds of thousands of Kosovars left the country to work abroad, unable to find work at home. __________________ The Buck Stops Here

04-06-2007, 17:15 PM	#127 (permalink)
SRB Contributor Join Date: 05-19-06 Location: Belgrade Posts: 402 Country:	Ironduke: "I'm not stating that every other side other than the Serbs was blameless in the Yugoslav wars. What I am stating, is that Milosevic played the primary role in re-igniting ethnic tensions in Yugoslavia and unleashing the chain of events that followed, the first of which was the severe repression of the Kosovars beginning in the mid to late 80's which instilled a fear of similar measures and growing Serb nationalism in Slovenia, Croatia, and Bosnia." This is great joke. Growing Serb nationalism in Slovenia. If we were so bad in Slovenia why than 50.000 Slovenians came in Belgrade for every new year? Also I would always go in any part of Slovenia with my car and my belgrade car plates but I would make good thinking if need to go in Split(in Croatia) with my car plates. In Slovenia war was between JNA and Slovenian territorial defence force, no Serb paramilitary. There is small number of Serbs in Slovenia and because in last 100 year Slovenian Serbs didnt had problems in Slovenia majorty are loyal citizens of Slovenia. There is problem with large number of erased from list of Slovenian citizens which in 1990 said that they are Yugoslovians but they could stay and work in Slovenia in fact they still work there. __________________ USSR EXPERIMENTAL SPITFIRE Last edited by SRB : 04-06-2007 at 17:21 PM.

02-27-2008, 18:45 PM	#131 (permalink)
ShayGaetz Banished Join Date: 02-26-08 Posts: 30	Kosovo - reality check! On October 24, 2000; former president of Yugoslavia, Vojislav Koštunica, admitted that Yugoslav security forces had committed genocide in Kosovo and that he was ready to take responsibility for crimes committed by his predecessor Slobodan Milosevic. Serbian president Tadic today cannot dare suggest that Kosovars now must continue to suffer Serbian hegemony in silence? In 1991, Seselj, the leader of the Serbian Radical Party boasted in Serbia’s parliament that his forces had "gouged the eyes out of a dozen Croats with rusty spoons" and claimed the only solution to Serbia's problems was to “cut the throat of every Croat and every Muslim”. Just last week, Seselj’s proxy only narrowly lost Serbia’s presidency in runoff elections. Kosovars have suffered at a minimum, attempted genocide at the blood-soaked hands of Serb chauvinism; a genocide forestalled by NATO intervention as a sidelined UN impotently wrung its hands. How can the world even dare suggest that Kosovars suffer in silence under continued Serbian hegemony? Before Serbia can petition its claims, it must thoroughly purge itself of the evil notions of its crypto-Nazi nationalist leaders who even today continue to rant about Greater Serbia, Slav racial purity, an Orthodox crusade against Islam, and medieval Kosovo - Serbia's so-called Jerusalem. Just like Germany a generation ago, Serbia too must reconcile itself with its woeful contribution to 20th Century history. Erasing the evils of “etnicko ciscenje" or "ethnic cleansing" will be a least a generation in coming. In the meantime, Kosovo must be given its freedom!

02-27-2008, 18:50 PM	#132 (permalink)
ShayGaetz Banished Join Date: 02-26-08 Posts: 30	Kosovo's economic viability and serbian avarice! U. N. envoy Martti Ahtisaari, mediating yearlong talks between ethnic Albanians and Serbs submitted his final report highlighting UN failures in Kosovo and recommending Kosovar independence. His efforts provoked a new international row in the UN Security Council where some members of the international community behaved like scavengers picking at the bones of genocide’s victims! Kosovo is sitting on one of Europe’s most lucrative mineral deposits. The potential wealth of northern Kosovo’s Trepça Complex coveted by Serbia is vast! It alone could solve either nation’s desperate economic problems. The debate is no longer about democratic decentralization; this is really about Serbian Lebensraum, as international interests divvy up the spoils of war. Perhaps more telling is Russia’s indignant response to Ahtisaari’s diplomatic footnote that "Kosovo is a unique case that demands a unique solution. It does not create a precedent for other unresolved conflicts." Given its’ blood-soaked record in Chechnya, Russia fears precisely such UN precedent. If the UN can stymie the creation of a "Greater Serbia" built on genocide's charnel remains, Russian ambitions in former Soviet Union territories can be similarly thwarted. China is similarly worried. It would appear that America and her new Balkan allies (including Macedonia and Montenegro) are about to force the issue by unilaterally granting de facto independence to Kosovo. America is yet again acting with honor; siding with the victims of genocide; who, this time, happen to be Muslim. Go figure!

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04-04-2007, 17:52 PM	#123 (permalink)
MrFirst Contributor Join Date: 01-02-07 Location: Empire of Evil Posts: 566	Only? From which times this old age began to be called "only"??? Babies appear in such age!

02-27-2008, 18:52 PM	#133 (permalink)
ShayGaetz Banished Join Date: 02-26-08 Posts: 30	some links: cm.greekhelsinki.gr/index.php Anti-Masonic Hate Stamps Regarding WW II history: President Tudjman (a Croatian hero of the Partisan movement in WW II) on more than one occasion lamented the fate of all who perished! I note that no Serbian leader has ever followed Croatia’s example and apologized for Serbian complicity in the Holocaust! According to Parish monographs, the Yugoslav census records of 1946 as well as Serbian historians; it is clear that the Serbian population actually increased during World War II. This fact belies the Serbian contentions they were victims of an unprecedented holocaust, the horror of the Ustasi crimes notwithstanding! The fate of the Croats is far less benign! By all accounts, the Croats (among other ethnic groups) suffered an acute reduction in population according to the same sources cited above. Furthermore, the slaughter continued long after July 1945. In the six years following the end of World War II, roughly one quarter of Yugoslavia’s population was jailed or exterminated as extolled in a speech to the Belgrade Parliament by Aleksandr Rankovic (chief of secret police) who boasted of the jailing and “liquidation” of over three million “enemies of the state”. (Yugoslav dailies: Borba & Politika; Feb 1, 1951) Winston Churchill once remarked the Balkans have a propensity to produce more history than they can possibly digest!

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