Garry

Hi Collonel! I share your view here. In fact there are rarrelly right side in the ethnical conflicts... these conflicts are so brutal that it is hard to pick who is victim and who is agressor.

However, Europeans do not understand that giving Albanians idependence would mean much more threat to them as it breakes the system which keeps current borders firm... probably these borders are not perfect but much better than a situation when everybody start question current status... like Basques in Spain, Norther Ireland, Kurds, etc.... THERE ARE NO JUSTICE in these issues. Would Kosovo Albanians be a good aly? Hardly.... I would dump them

Officer of Engineers

Gary,

There will be another war. Kosovo cannot survive without Southern Serbia as its territory. NATO is trying to get out. Once they're gone, the Kosovo Albanians will try another insurrection into Southern Serbia, sparking that war.

__________________
Chimo

Ray

I don't understand why they are so keen to implement Marrti's plan when it is evident that Kosovo's survival would be in question.

__________________


"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

Officer of Engineers

Sir,

"Peace in our lifetime." "Peace with Honour." All translate to getting the hell out of that sh!thole.

gunnut

Truer words have never been said.

The people who are against "war" (re: anti-Bush, against Iraq) had no problem sending American troops to Yugoslavia which did not concern our national security, and they're demanding sending our troops to Darfur to act as a buffer between militiamen.

Of course the media never tells you that.

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"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

astralis

gunnut,

my guess is that the moral appeal intrinsic in these type of peacekeeping missions doesn't rub up against them the same way exercising power in pursuit of national iterest does. ie it's okay as long as we can see it through "altruistic" ideals.

somewhat delusional, of course, but there it is...that's why i think the US -might- have had an easier time had we emphasized the moral issue of going into iraq as opposed to the WMD issue.

__________________
Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present.

-Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

gunnut

Perhaps, but that could really be troublesome if we started to adopt the policy of invasion based on human rights record. And what kind of human rights? Only intervene anarchy to establish order? Or do we invade countries that don't have a social welfare system similar to our own? If we started to lose a few hundred soldiers per year in Kosovo, will the media ask why we're doing it?

saambaarblast

Welcome to the new badlands of Europe. Kosovo could well be the next major flashpoint in modern European history. The KLA types will inundate Western Europe with drugs and do it with impunity. In future, we might see an explosive mix of Islamic extremism and narco-trade coupled together.

This time there won't be any Skanderbeg to save Europe!
Looks like Europe will not break its Balkan jinx anytime soon!

Officer of Engineers

Save Europe? It would be the other way around. The East Europeans lost none of their bloodlust against the Muslims. Take a look at Grozny and that was not done by a nuke.

saambaarblast

Sir, agreed. Croats, Serbs and Greeks in Balkans hate Albanians and Turks. However, there is severe disunity amongst the Christian Eastern Europeans themselves. Serbs hate Croats and vice-versa. So will they(or can they) unite against a common enemy? And will they win the Demographic war 25-50 years from now?

Edit: Then again, Macedonians are no great fans of Albanians either.

Officer of Engineers

A common enemy at the terror level will not stop any of those Europeans from starting a genocidic march. Do you actually think the combined armies of the Kosovo Albanians and Albania itself is a match for the Serbs? Never mind the Russians.

Wraith601

Actually a lot of people, on both the left and right, opposed the war, but they didn't recieve much media attention, plus most Americans really didn't care about the Kosovo operation too much because there were no American ground troops involved at first and thus little risk for major casualties.

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"We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be, detested in France."
-Sir Arthur Wellesley

Parihaka

Russian envoy blasts "sermon" for Kosovo independence

Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin stormed out of a UN Security Council meeting Monday following what he described as a "sermon" by UN special representative Joachim Rucker advocating "outright independence" for Kosovo.

Churkin clarified later that his leaving the consultations was not a walk-out because his aide was still attending the closed session on the status of the Serbian province.

"There was a strong Russian statement, you can report that," Churkin told reporters after the adjourning of the private meeting of the Security Council.

"I was very upset by what I heard from Mr. Rucker today," Churkin told reporters after leaving in the middle of consultations. "His remarks have been extremely one-sided and unhelpful."

Churkin accused Rucker of deviating from his mandate by " preaching for independence instead of discussing implementation of Resolution 1244," which was adopted by the UN Security Council on June 10, 1999.

Rucker, for his part, defended his statements during the closed session, saying he was only "describing the perceptions on the ground."

The exchange Monday followed Russia's call a day earlier for replacing UN special envoy for Kosovo Martti Ahtisaari.

"If there is no agreement, and so far as we understand there isn't, that means it is necessary to continue talks and to appoint a new special representative," the Interfax news agency quoted Russian Security Council chief Igor Ivanov as saying on Sunday.

Ahtisaari's plan, which opens way for ultimate independence of Kosovo, is welcomed in the West. But Russia has voiced concern that such a settlement might have adverse effects on many other breakaway regions in Europe.

Churkin on Monday sidestepped questions about replacing Ahtisaari, but said the main thing is to continue negotiations with "those personalities who would be pushing for more progress in the negotiations."

"We do not see how the Security Council can support a solution which would impose things in a situation where Resolution 1244 has not been implemented because the standards have not been up to the level, where the Council is supposed to sever part of a country from a sovereign country," Churkin said.

"There must be a serious effort for negotiation and the kind of preaching of an inevitability and absolute need for immediate solution on the status ... are unhelpful," he said.

At Monday's regular press briefing, UN Secrtary-General Ban Ki- moon's spokeswoman, Michele Montas, said Ban has full confidence in Ahtisaari. "This process has to go on and Mr. Ahtisaari is in charge."

In Washington, the United States also expressed support for Ahtisaari.

"We think Mr. Ahtisaari is doing a good job with a very, very tough issue," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said. "It is time to bring some possible solution to the issue of Kosovo."

Sanda Raskovic-Ivic, president of Serbia's Coordination Center for Kosovo and Metohija, and Kosovo President Fatmir Sejdiu were presented at Monday's session.

Rucker, the UN special representative, said the Serbian delegation presented their view that was "not totally compatible with ... the situation of the Kosovar Serbs in Kosovo."

"We do have the impression that isolated incidents that do happen are misrepresented," Rucker said.

Dragana Ivanovic, press secretary at the Serbian mission to the United Nations, said there were 52 "ethnically motivated attacks on Serbs and members of non-Albanian communities" in Kosovo in the past four months alone, 22 of them targeting Serb returnees and their property.

"We are calling them threats by Albanian separatists and terrorists that are happening in Kosovo and Metohija," Ivanovic said.

"We support the initiative to continue the negotiation process and open dialogue, which will be conducted in good faith," Ivanovic said. "We think that such talks can result in a compromise in a negotiated solution in conformity with the UN Charter and equally beneficial for both Serbs and Albanians and for their future."

__________________
In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz

saambaarblast

Sir, as you imply, militarily speaking Albanians will be soundly outclassed by Serbs or Croats(provided west doesn't enter the fray). But didn't a similar entity, Bosnia, manage to politically break away, despite the price they had to pay?

Correct me if I am wrong, weren't they similarly placed as the the Kosovans now are? Since you have been there and done that in the Balkans, you would know whats actually going on.

Perhaps Kosovo is too small, but how does Albania+Kosovo-muslims+Macedonia+Bosnia fare as a political entity? For armed insurrection, if the mujahiddeen joins in, then it could become a proxy war. Russia and Europe will never allow mullahs a military foothold in Europe. They may infact end up encouraging another Milosevic

MrFirst

Why the Albanians are "a common enemy"? Are they the Croats' enemies?