TopHatter

Honest response or not, it was also baiting. Please refrain from doing so.

SalemPoor

This is your site, and as such I will respect your perspective, however, the intention was not to bait, troll or otherwise disrupt the discussion.

troung

I can think of plenty of thinks which would make us leave. If the Iraqis gave us Verdun style losses; we would give over New England (not a big loss but still ).

If the "surge" (I think the word is wierd) works then America could get on track to stablize the nation; if voilence keeps up/moves/waits for us to move on then I doubt there would be any will nationally to keep throwing money down a pit. Dems want out and Repubs are not coming out in support of the effort.

I sometimes doubt Bush really thinks we will still pull out some sort of win or just wants to put withdrawing off on the next guy. America will more then likely declare some sort of benchmarks met and use that as an excuse to leave the country when is the question. I question if the Repubs want the war still going on at today's tempo in 2008. I also question if Bush wants to be the one to have to withdraw from Iraq.

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To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

SnowLeopard

Consider, just for a moment, what is being said here. "No matter what it costs".

So, if the costs involves taking every piece of military might and putting it in the country where we are left undefended against against everything else, that's okay?

Is the above likely? Who knows but the mindset of "no matter what it costs" is unacceptable.

And it goes both ways. Do we value the dollar more than human life? Well, in some cases, we must. When Waco burned, one of the points was the cost the siege was each day and how something had to be done (right or wrong). A counter arguement was do we value the dollar more than human life? Well consider a possible alternative line of thought: because I use up all the funds on a siege, I cannot get my deputy force cross trained as paramedics or perhaps I cannot get them trained on handling domestic violence.

There is only so much money and having been stuck on ship in port during deployment after we bombed Libya, I know this only too well.

Money is not limitless and we better start realizing this before this concept that we can spend as much as we need/want kills us. After all, isn't that how we defeated the Soviets?
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("If money was no object ...... but, of course, money is always an object."--truism of life)

Confed999

Money is a concept that makes trade easier. Just like the American War Between The States, it all comes down to how bad you want to win, as both sides in that one ran out of money long before the fight was over. One can say the same of one/all sides in most wars.

__________________
No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

Low-tech

boston is the 3rd largest metropolitain economy on the east coast.

harvard?,MIT?,bank of boston<multi billion dollar multinational bank>?

your loss. not to mention youd be giving away bush's real home state.

the peoples republic of new england? i like the sound of that.

troung

Shhhh... he is a Texan...

No big loss; just blue states.

The Khanate of New England or Sultanate of New England.

Low-tech

the peoples khanate of new england, that sounds about right.

we will wussify and liberalize islam into secular socialism.

think about when the mongols invaded china......mongols assimilated chinese culture. if islam took root here our culture would predominate because we have way more to offer them then they to us.

sharia law wouldnt last long.

we here in new england already went thru theocracy, it was known as the massachusetts bay colony, been there, done it.

troung

That will be in the long term; in the short term Ghazis from the emirate of an-Boston would raid into New York to take hostages, loot and door knobs.

In the long term Islam as a whole would be infected with liberal and socialist ideas and funny New England accents. Ideas such as no child left behind, government health care, freedom of choice, miniunim wage, protection from a big government and so forth would not only take hold in the Middle East but in the rest of the USA as Islam expands not only into the USA but Canada would be infected with the neo-Islamic liberal school of thought as it expands through taxation and conquest.

We MUST stop this. We CAN stop this. We MIGHT fail to stop this

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Fez caps or turbans?

Low-tech

since my ancestors, the greeks were forced to wear lamp shades....i mean fez caps for a couple centuries i think ill go with turbans.

hopefully do-rags will suffice as a turban, like a turban with a mud flap or something.

and the brand of socialism east coast liberals advocate is alot more moderate than even those social-democracies in scandinavia.

its funny that we have allies whom we had military alliances,bases and the whole 9 yards with, who are way more left in practice. meanwhile the liberals here who mostly support socialist policies within a democratic framework, stuff like universal healthcare which are just mere approaches/theories, are construed as some sort of stalinist bogeymen.

if we are so bad i wonder what you think on most of europe, which is far more socialist than liberals here ever intended to be.

there no wonder that most of the world doesnt really like conservative americans. i know disrespect is a 2 way street here in american politics, but clinton era liberals never demonized the cons to the extent as liberals are now. creating a political climate/discourse where if anyone even so much as questions the policies they are conflated with traitors and terrorist sympathizers, forget the arguments and points made themselves, we just simply eat children and small defenseless animals alive in our sparetimes, so there is no need to actually go thru the motions of having a<fierce but constructive> debate about anything.

such intolerance reflects horribly abroad, and this isnt "the international test" kind of angle....when the rest of the world doesnt cooperate,help,put in a position where thier input would be heeded or even valued.......

nothing gets done. we're learning the hard way.

troung

The social democracies are about to fall to the Muslims and become social-mullahocracies as their Muslim populations will take control; give it 200-300 years and mark my words.

Oh yeah and how long have you hated Amerika...

Low-tech

but the mullahs wouldnt be real, they would be figureheads of propaganda committees chaired by overall wearing, godless,totaltars of the inner party.

the muslims would have to juggle all our burdens,our problems. our failed war on drugs policy, our huge prison population, our gangs, the traffic of guns,drugs and anything else they criminalize and illegalize.

since we arent really good at that stuff anyways, the expectation is that they wont be either. and since the average ameican has access to far more dangerous and advanced technology,are far more educated and tech savvy, i forsee a formitable insurgency. if we dont feel we are commie enough to really wear those bland denim overalls in true fashion, theres hell to pay, if they close starbucks, if they cancel south park, if we cant play our video games, if the patriots cant play football or the red sox cant get thier asses whooped by the yankees again.....you are gonna see how the revolutionary war made us famous.

so i say, bring them on.

Grim

In my opinion it is a truly bad place the US finds it self. Ruled by two parties, each fighting each other for power. One party so desperate to generate power and wealth that it would jepordize a war / victory to achieve it. The other party so desperate for a moral war / victory that it can call its own, that it is willing to fight and demonize its own people and military in order to achieve it .
I feel to win in Iraq and the WOT we need to get our hands dirty, We have been cutting of the head of the monster only to see it grow several new ones to replace that which it has lost. In order to kill a hydra one needs to sick one hands in its chest and rip out its heart. This can best be done by taking the fight to those nations who covertly support and fund the enemies. They are after all allies to each other.
How can the US do this without reasonable support from its own people? I fear the real casualty of this fracas in the end will be the long term morale of the military.
How do you ask such brave men so betrayed to be loyal to you?

Confed999

We'll have our "Pearl Harbor" soon enough...

Grim

That it would take such an act is a testimony to our failing school systems.
However I feel it will take someone elses Pearl Harbor to do the trick.
Maybe say if China or Venezuela suffered an attack form our enemies our nation might then find it self more united. Just as we were so united after Hitler attacked the USSR in WWII.