Ray

Shere,

Ab kar le gal.

Of course, in one of the thread, 'What is your nationality', you said you were born and brought up in Europe and in another thread 'What is your language' you claimed that you don't know Punjabi.

I am not a Sikh or a Punjabi, though I would like to claim of being a Khalsa since it mean 'Pure' (which I don't think anyone can claim), yet, I know Punjabi.

Funny. what? You are such a votary of Khalistan and you know damn all of Punjab or the language; and I am not even a Sikh, but I know the language and the Punjab!

In short, you are a fraud and can be someone who is not a Khalsa (Sikh)and is using another 'entry' with a fraud link to go ballistic.

Enjoy yourself.

RajKhalsa, a genuine Sikh which roots in Punjab and the Indian military, has answered you so appropiately.

Having been in the Army and with Sikh troops also, your ilk is disgrace the sacrifice that Sikhs have done for India, in the Partition as also in the various Wars. Even the British are grateful to the Sikhs for their contribution in WWI and WWII.

My Sikh soldiers would have massacred you (Khassi bana deta ap ko).

Are you Massa Ranga reincarnated? I would not be surprised. Remember where his head landed?

But then, you would not know Sikh history, or would you? Beign brought up in Europe as some around here.

Remember how the Mogul transformed the Golden Temple into ....till the genuine Khalsa sorted them out? Well as a slave and friend of your mentors, you wouldn't appreciate that? What ho?

__________________


"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

Sher-e-Punjab

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

My dear, and by that same token your family is as representative of Sikh interests as K.P.S Gill is, ie zero. The guy cant even go to Punjab or he'll be killed. And rightfully so. Neither his hands or name will ever be clean. They will always be stained with the blood of tens of thousands of Sikhs murdered in Punjab by the Indian armed forces.

The Singhs still remember what the Hindus used to chant in public and taunt them with - "Kachh, Kara, Kirpaan; Ehnoon bhejo Pakistan" (The shorts, the steel bangle, the sword - symbols of the Sikhs - send these to Pakistan)"

I should not be surprised that you have picked up these habits from your Bahman masters of telling others to "go back to Pakistan."

Jiyo,

RajKhalsa

Frankly Mr. "Sher-e-Punjab", who you are comes off quite clearly. You are someone of Punjabi origin, displaced in Europe, with no knowlege of your roots or culture, who is desperately looking for an identity to boost your own sense of self-resepct, and you found it in the perverted ideology that twists our faith and culture into something truely evil, and have so internalized such hatreds in a desperate attempt to project yourself as a man, repeating tired slogans and rhetoric you neither wrote, understand or comprehend, and cavorting with our current and historic enemies against our very own People.

You no nothing of the Fath, and you know nothing about our People. You dare call terrorists martyrs, and in doing so you insult our Gurus and every true martyr of the Faith.


You are not Sikh. You are not a warrior. You are a self-styled internet jehadi with an inferiority complex and who is so out of touch with the wishes of the Punjab. Our leaders, Sikh leaders, lead our nation, and our troops, Sikh troops, protect her land. Our people are an intregal and willing part of India, and the hate-filled delusions of your lot will never understand because behind your identity and shell of hate, there is nothing, not even a man.

I can only implore you to read the teachings of our Gurus and learn our Faith, because you obviously know neither.



I will have nothing more to say to you.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Jai Hind.

Jay

Right on

__________________
A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!

Ray

RajKhalsa,

Well said.

It was the best answer I have seen.

My congratulations, sir.

Sher-e-Punjab

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji ki Fateh

I "dare call" Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale a martyr? Haha, and you say i am out of touch with the wishes of Punjab. It was not too long ago that Sant Jarnail Singh (a former head and Jathedar of Damdami Taksal) was declared a martyr of the Panth by the Akal Takht. I think you should think before calling those who laid down their lives for the faith as "terrorists". The only "terrorists" during Bluestar were the foreign invaders (ie Undian army).

You disgust me when you try to tell me - "You are not Sikh." - You overrate yourself and your place in this World. Simply, you are a zero in the big scheme of things, and are a no body to tell me what i am.

Before lecturing me on Sikhism you should understand not to judge another's faith. Since you dont know me i would assume that you would also have no idea what i personally know about our religion and Punjabi culture. But then, you do have Bahmans for masters who think they know more about Sikhism than the Sikhs, more about Islam than the Muslims, more about Christianity than the Christians etc etc I think it is you who needs to reflect on Gurbani before mentally masturbating over me as a person.

You have nothing more to say to me because you are a coward who values a false and perverted nation (India) more than God and more than human (Sikh) life.

You are one of these below:

Samudra

Hey
Its you who is not a Sikh.You overrate yourself , and bother not to reply in some threads.A genuine sikh is well entitled to tell you , that you are not a sikh and whats more , you are Pakistani !

Jay

Bhindranwale is not a martyr, he's just a terrorist and thats how the people of Punjab look at him.

This is what one of the Sikha had to say about the whole fiasco,

http://www.punjabilok.com/full_cover...nwale/main.htm

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discu...5?OpenDocument

The Akalis are trying to get back in to power, thats all. As Raj said, you are out of touch with the people and feelings of Punjab.

Cry baby cry, dont ever set foot in to Punjab, they are gonna stone you.

Oh and you said the same about Raj. If you are so sensitive they why post a cartoon?? why, toony boy??

One just needs to turn back and see what he craps all around the forum. That pretty much enuff to know a person.

Hmm, isnt that odd, on one hand you say dont judge me or my faith and the other hand you pretty much say the same thing about him.

Well, its like pot calling a kettle back. You are a coward, you ran away to UK claiming refugee status. Its you who valued your life more than the faith, ran away to the boots of the british, the same british who killed hundreds and thousands of Sikhs. Lets see who the real coward is, the one who fled Punjab or the one who stayed back and worked towards the well being of Punjab.

Oh my, you are so sensitive

lemontree

Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale was a terrorist and he died a dogs death because he had soiled the Holy Golden Temple. If he was a saint then what saintly deed had he done?...nothing, only the devils deed.

Ofcourse, Rajkhalsa does'nt know who you are? I'll educate him. You are an unemployed person, living on the social security doles of some european nation. You are living off the offerings from some Gurudwara and making money by pleading to the naive foreigners to fund your "cause". Little do the doners know that the money they give is used by you to live a lavishly, wine, women and fast cars.

You are very vulgar for a person claiming to know and follow Sikhism. If I ever get my hands on you if hand you over to the troops from my old unit (all Sikhs), they would love to have you for entertainment

Rajkhalsa and his family are more brave than you will ever be. At least they defend and serve a nation that exists. You serve Khalistan (empty land), that exists between your ears, 'coz that is and empty zone.

__________________

Cheers!...on the rocks!!

lemontree

Shere,

The eye witness accounts mentioned by you in this thread is nothing but lies...

There were some civilians in the Golden Temple during Op Blue Star, but they were not killed as you said. They were all hidding in the guest rooms. The army had this intel and was careful.

There were over 400 terrorist with Bhindranwala. They were armed to the teeth with AK-47s, RPK gpmgs, and RPGs, so dont give your crap account that they were poorly armed (at least you admit that they were armed).

Please tell this forum how Bhindranwala's men had turned the Golden Temple into a brothel. After Op Blue Star, the army rescued many young girls who had been kidnapped and were used as sex slaves by the Sikh terrorists. All the girls were unmarried and many were pregnant.

If you are not aware of this ask some one who was there don't belive this if you are a Sikh. But I dought it , you seem to be a Pakistani propaganda prop.

mostlymad

Beautiful! Thank you.

Sher-e-Punjab

October 30th, 2004

India: Prosecute Killers of Sikhs

End Two Decades of Impunity

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/10/30/india9580.htm

On the twentieth anniversary of the mass killings of Sikhs, the new Congress-led government should launch fresh investigations into and make a public commitment to prosecute the planners and implementers of the violence, Human Rights Watch said today.

In 1984, in retaliation for the assassination of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi by her Sikh bodyguards on October 31, angry mobs, some allegedly organized by members of the Congress party, attacked and killed thousands of Sikhs. From November 1 to November 4, gangs attacked the symbols and structures of the Sikh faith, the properties of Sikhs, and killed whole families by burning them alive. The residences and properties of Sikhs were identified through government-issued voter lists.

Victim groups, lawyers and activists have long alleged state complicity in the violence. For three days the police failed to act, as gangs carrying weapons and kerosene roamed the streets, exhorting non-Sikhs to kill Sikhs and loot and burn their properties.

“Seven government-appointed commissions have investigated these attacks,” said Brad Adams, Asia director of Human Rights Watch. "But the commissions were all either whitewashes or they were met with official stonewalling and obstruction.”

The report of the latest commission, the Nanavati Commission, was due November 1, but has been delayed for another two months.

“The time for commissions that do not lead to prosecutions is over,” said Adams. “After two decades, the prosecutors and police should act. There is more than enough evidence to do so now.”

Human Rights Watch called for an end to political protection for organizers of the violence. Some of those allegedly involved in the pogrom currently occupy posts in the government or are members of parliament. Both the judiciary and administrative inquiry commissions have failed to hold these perpetrators accountable.

“For two decades high-ranking members of the Congress party have enjoyed political impunity for this violence,” said Adams. “The fact that many of the alleged planners of the violence were and are members of the Congress party should not be a barrier to justice for the victims.”

Human Rights Watch commended ENSAAF (www.ensaaf.org), an organization dedicated to fighting impunity in India, for its 150-page report, Twenty Years of Impunity, analyzing the patterns of the pogroms and the attitudes and practices of impunity revealed by previously unpublished government documents and other materials.

“With many connected to the violence now enjoying prominent positions in public life, the ENSAAF report makes it clear that India continues to ignore this dark chapter of its modern history at its own risk,” said Adams. “Only a conscious exercise of political will on the part of the new government of Prime Minister Singh can bring about justice for the Sikhs.”

_______________________________________________

AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL

Public Statement

AI Index: ASA 20/099/2004 (Public)
News Service No: 275
29 October 2004

http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/docum...256F3C005F7B0C

India: Punjab - Twenty years on impunity continues

Welcoming the extension of the tenure of Nanavati Commission of Inquiry, on the anti-Sikh riots in Delhi and other parts of the country, Amnesty International urges the Indian authorities to ensure that the perpetrators of the violence carried out against the Sikh community, in 1984, be brought to justice.

The United Progressive Alliance in its Common Minimum Programme stated that improving the justice sector and addressing the issues of communal violence was one of its goals. Amnesty International believes that ending impunity for past abuses is critical to achieving these objectives.

Amnesty International calls on the Indian authorities to end impunity for perpetrators of human rights violations carried out in Punjab state between the mid 1980's and 1990's, including the 1984 riots in Delhi. During this period, a range of human rights violations were perpetrated but few people have been brought to justice.

"Until justice is delivered to victims and their families the wounds left by this period remain open," said Amnesty International.

Only a small minority of the police officers responsible for a range of human rights violations, including torture, deaths in custody, extra-judicial killings and 'disappearances', were brought to justice in the Punjab state. There have been a small number of prosecutions but in many cases impunity has prevailed.

In 1996, the Supreme Court ordered the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) to examine the findings of the Central Bureau of Investigations that 2,097 people had been illegally cremated by police officials in Amritsar district between 1984 and 1994. In March 2004, through public notices in newspapers the NHRC encouraged the families of the victims to file their claims before the Commission.

Background Information

The decade of violent political opposition in Punjab -- which lasted from the mid-1980s to the mid-1990s -- started when a movement within the Sikh community in Punjab turned to violence to achieve an independent state for the Sikhs in the early 1980s.

To deal with the violence in the state, Indira Gandhi, then Prime Minister of India, authorized an army assault on the Golden Temple, the centre of the Sikh religion, in June 1984. Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, the leader of Akali Dal, the largest Sikh political party demanding official recognition of the Sikh faith and greater political autonomy, together with many of his supporters, were killed in an assault on the Golden Temple, known as Operation Blue Star.
Indira Gandhi was assassinated on 31 October 1984 in retaliation. Her assassination was followed by a period of violence known as the anti-Sikh riots.

From the early 1980s, armed opposition groups targeted and killed police officers, elected representatives and civil servants. The security forces resorted to unlawful and indiscriminate arrests, torture and extrajudicial executions. Thousands of civilians were the victims of abuses committed by both sides.

Armed opposition ended in Punjab just over a decade ago, resulting in a marked decrease of human rights violations in the state. However, thousands of families are still waiting to see justice or know the fate of their relatives who "disappeared" that period.

In its 2003 report, India: Break the cycle of impunity and torture in Punjab, Amnesty International linked the continuation of serious human rights violations in the Punjab to the culture of impunity developed during the period of militancy and reinforced by subsequent inaction. The organization found that regular incidents of torture and custodial violence in the Punjab occur even today.

dabrownguy

Your like the mullah of sikhs. first of all there WERE "sikh" terriosts that got trained by probabiliy Pakistan terroists. So the indian gov moves in. sure there WERE injustice done to minorities. weren't they're in the states against blacks? point is i don't care. we have a sikh pm. which just proves too many points to begin with.

opps i dont want to call u an extermist since u have sensible posting skills. sp lets just say u have a different view. btw when i go to a gurdwara i see use too see pictures of saints with ak-47's etc...no those pictures don't exist there. things have changed. and also mojorites are terroised by mojorities as well. but i hardly hear about that anymore.

__________________
http://www.indiandefenceforum.com/index.php
Indian defence Forum!

Sher-e-Punjab

Friday, October 29, 2004

Analysis

20 years after 1984

The little boy with spiky hair who could not speak

The 20th anniversary of the anti-Sikh riots of 1984 is approaching. The highest riot death toll since Partition, not a single conviction, 1984 remains India’s forgotten genocide

Sheela Barse

Fifteen years old. Round chubby face. Aching black eyes. She stumbled out of the first rescue bus. Torment she had endured for 36 hours surged out when she saw us. ‘‘Meri izzat loot li (they raped me),’’ she cried out. She pulled away the loose, crumpled kurta from her shoulders to reveal a gash from her left collar bone to right breast, covered with dried blood, ‘‘Dekho, dekho, unhone kya kiya mere saath (see, see what they did to me).”

In barrack rooms, a team of interns arranged first-aid medicines, gauzes, on the dirty floor. It was noon. November 2, 1984. Two days after Indira Gandhi’s assassination.

Thirty-six hours after more than 300 Sikhs in that basti had been lynched, burnt and flung down from upper floors in the presence of their families, pushing back the women and children who rushed to embrace the targeted men, Delhi police had found one bus to bring out the terrorised survivors from their looted homes with just their clothes on, to the police grounds.

A 12-year-old boy sat alone apart from his kin, on a large stone, brooding, head held firm on a straight spine. The knot of his kesh had been lopped off but the remaining hair, glued spiny stiff and erect in a bunch, proclaimed his continuing identity. ‘‘He has not spoken a word since he saw his father and uncle being burnt to death and flung down from first floor,’’ a relative informs.

A desultory conversation begins. A middle-aged sardarni, still dreaming of the gory killing of her husband, softly asks, ‘‘Is it possible to rescue my brother-in-law? He is all burnt but there is still some breath in him. He is sitting in a chair for the last 40 hours.’’ The woman withdraws into herself.

I ask for a guide to locate the house. A polio-affected youth moves closer. ‘‘I will. The police left behind my wife. Her thigh and shoulder were scorched as she threw herself on my eldest brother when they set him on fire live. She is mute and young, childlike really...’’

An athletic sardar, kesh cut, clean-shaven, accompanies me. Few hours ago, like many Sikhs in that colony, he had paid several hundred rupees to a barber to raze an integral part of his being. Since October 31, ‘kesh’ marked not a glorious inheritance but a victim to be torched alive.

With the doctor’s team and first-aid, we enter the colony and pause by a wounded elderly man lying on a cot. He would need an ambulance. We do not have one. ‘‘Now you come,’’ screams a woman. ‘‘After bodies have been thrown in the nullahs.’’ A Sikh grabs my arm, ‘‘Curfew laga dijiye.” Our guide sprints into a lane. Mounds of junk placed across the road every few yards, the lynchers’ barricades to prevent victims escaping in their taxis. The young doctors trail. The guide breaks into a run and leaps over front steps of a house. ‘‘Anyone there?’’ I call out a few times, then step in.

The house had been looted clean, no furniture, no utensils, no clothes. ‘‘There is no one inside, I checked thoroughly,’’ he says. Depressed, we stand still in the stark living room. A mob of 200 men and women has arched around the house while we are inside. They watch us silently. ‘‘What have you done with him?’’ I yell. ‘‘Didn’t burning him satisfy you? His bhabhi told me that Dilbara Singh is sitting in a chair. Where have you hidden him?’’

‘‘Oh Dilbara Singh!’’ a man steps up saucily. ‘‘Come here. This pile of ashes, that’s him. His wife broke up the chair and gave him a live funeral, with flowers and everything.’’ he grins wickedly.

The chowk is now blocked by a mob of 150. The news of a rescue team has travelled. I notice brass knuckles on a fist and cycle chain in a hand and discover that our guide is missing.‘‘Where is the man who came with us?,’’ I yell.‘‘He was with us 2 minutes ago. What have you done with him?’’

An armed sub-inspector comes running. ‘‘He is safe. He was recognised. He ran for his life. He asked me to inform you.’’ The officer was the sole policeman on duty for 48 hours.

The sun begins to set. Someone hails us. An elderly thick-set sardar in a wheelchair pushed by two youngsters. ‘‘Take me out please,’’ the sardar pleads. We walk away but a few steps later, I abruptly halt. The disabled Sikh is not safe, he’s in danger. We turn and stride to the disabled man. ‘‘Come,’’ we say. But the three young men have their hands firm on his wheelchair. ‘‘We’ll take him. We are with Nandita Haksar.’’ I believe them only after sighting Nandita 300 meters away.

That evening I hitch a ride in a press car. ‘‘Fifty-nine Hindus killed, some pulled in gurdwaras.’’ they tell me. ‘‘But we are not printing that.’’.

Police Commissioner Tandon refuses to see the press. PRO Panwar s******s, ‘‘Hundreds killed in one basti? How is it possible to burn people alive? We have not received any complaints.’’

Reporters decide to gatecrash Tandon’s office. ‘‘Please order shoot at sight.” He steps back into the unlit shield of his chamber. His subordinates and guards block the door.

Next day, I visit the morgue. A corpse wrapped in a bloodstained brilliant white sheet is laid outside the walled compound, in front of the gate. Not a soul around. I ask a policeman if I can pay for a few decent funerals.

In the compound, to my left, is an open shed with hundreds of bloated corpses stacked 6-7 deep like logs. In front of me, scores of rotting bodies heaped in a truck. Nearby a dump of swollen, decaying remains of men. Disconnected tufts of hair strewn around. The policeman returns, asks me to come over. I take a few steps over the bunches of kesh littering the compound and blown around my feet.

Outside, I stand for a while with an anonymous, unaccompanied body.

URL: http://www.indianexpress.com/full_st...ntent_id=57863

Sher-e-Punjab

BBC special on 1984 anti-Sikh riots:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/2537887.stm

________________________________________________

- Women members of the All-India Sikh Conference hold a demonstration in New Delhi on Sunday demanding justice for the victims of the anti-Sikh riots of 1984. — PTI photo

- Activists under the banner of Lok Raj Sangathan, demanding justice for the victims of 1984 anti-Sikh carnage, at Jantar Mantar in the Capital on Monday.
— Tribune Photo Mukesh Aggarwal

- Akali Dal (Ravi Inder) activists block traffic in Moga on Monday demanding action against the perpetrators of the 1984 riots. — Photo by Iqbal Singh

Demonstration by riot victims
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20041101/main2.htm

For riot victims, 20 yrs changed nothing
http://cities.expressindia.com/fulls...?newsid=105357

Action against 1984 riots guilty demanded
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/200...punjab1.htm#12

Signature campaign by Akal Purkh Ki Fauj
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/200...punjab1.htm#16

Riot victims’ unending trauma, courtesy politicians
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20041102/cth1.htm#9

Chief of riot victim panel meets PM
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20041102/delhi.htm#3