gunnut

Oooh, ouch, yeah...that's a slight kink in the plan. How about if you make payment plans? Give your daughter 1 for Christmas and IOUs for the remainders. Then release 1 doll per month for the next 11 months so she can always have a new doll every month. This way you can get her used to credit card payment system too

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"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

kams

Fat Chance..it will be the Colonel who will be buying the rifle in parts . Rifle one year, Stock next, followed by Bolt, Telescopic Sight etc etc

highsea

LMAO

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My baby called me up. She said- Why don't you ever take me out? Pick me up in your brand new car....You shake the short change from the old fruit jar...

Archer

Sorry, India earned a seat a long time back. The simple fact is that the UN SC is a fricking arbitrary construct. The China seat went from the ROC to the PRC once the US decided that a counterweight to the USSR was required in the form of the PRC. The UN SC will be always used to demonstrate the primacy of the US and the west, even while western conservatives throw contempt on the UN as an institution, without understanding what a powerful tool it is vis a vis less powerful countries.

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Karmani Vyapurutham Dhanuhu

My bow is stretched for its task

Officer of Engineers

Ok, I'm lost. Could you explain your thoughts further here?

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Chimo

Archer

But actual products are at the same price as that in the US. A branded jeans worth $ 40 in the US, is at the same price in India, in Rs/-. The difference of course is that there are much cheaper non branded equivalents.

The Cols point about PPP is valid to quite a large degree, but the degree of progress made within the PRC in terms of cheap consumer goods, and within India for cheap consummables somewhat negates that. Of course, he is correct about impact on the world in terms of economy, where only "real dollars" not PPP dollars matter.

Archer

Sir, the UN SC is a way of enforcing whatever writ the west's geopolitical aims have. Eg if India and Pak go to war, and India tries to stick it to the US by doing what it wants, the SC will do the hatchet job first. And if India cannot buy in enough markers for a veto via Russia (the only one over whom it has influence), that can be a big PITA. For a hyperpower like the US, it by virtue of its economic and military size, has huge markers which allow it to be above the UN game. But that also allow it to run the UN game to a huge degree, especially for a country like India which has to also contend with its geopolitical rival, the PRC, being on the UN. In 1971, the Soviet Union told India that it would intercede for x amount of time in the SC. And so they did, but when the clock was up, it was up. Thats when the divisions moving from the Bangla theater, to the Pak one, stopped and the war effectively came to a close. If time had been on India's side, the west would have seen some changes as well, even if nothing as radical as the Bangladesh liberation. But this was not in the Soviet Unions interest as well, for one it would allow the Indian side too much power (especially Indira Gandhi) and it would heat up the Cold war with the US.

Even as recent as the 1980's and the 1990's, the UN was the preferred tool of the US establishment whenever they wanted to finger India. Usual topics- Kashmir being "disputed", the North East insurgency, as well as Human right violations (etc.) in Punjab. That has always kept India on the defensive.

Once India liberalized during the 90's - after the forex crisis, and PVN Rao and Manmohan Singh allowed US corporations significant access, namely Enron, which was allowed to negotiate a collosally bad (from the Indian POV) Dabhol power deal and started liberalizing the license raj, some of the heat from the UN and others also receded.

They are just part of the new great game, sir. India does not want the UN SC out of prestige , though its definitely associated with the SC seat- it wants it because it wants to safeguard its interests. From the Indian POV (for instance, the literature on ODS and even Kosovo)- each time the US/ west have intervened- it has been keenly observed that one day, similar calls could be made for India.

The NAM was an attempt by India to try and safeguard itself from these power politics, by developing a strong clique of developing countries which would support each other against such arm twisting. It was partially successful at times (for instance it did not allow the Pakistanis to use the OIC to effectively coerce India, as several islamic countries were pro-India), and a failure at others.

The UN SC, the NPT, even the WTO- these are all tied to the US and the west and are painpoints for any developing country, when that country tries to go its own path. Especially one such as India which had severe developmental problems and was very dependent on the west for several aspects of its industrial survival, and had a functioning democracy. If all you have is monarchy/ dictatorship, then you can undertake harsh measures and **** a snook at such external pressures depending upon how callous the leadership is. India's own flawed internal policies (mixed economy/ socialism-lite) did not work too well either, but what many commentators dont discern is that part of this ethic was developed because of external pain points applied via even ostensibly neutral organizations. In 1998 for instance, it was this internal economic ability which allowed India to bounce back from international pressure on the nuke tests. Compare with 2001 Parakram, a few years later- amongst the methods used to dissuade the Indian leadership was travel advisories, from the US and UK- the message was clear, India's software sector and exports (which basically were the new cornerstone of the Indian economy) would be targetted.

India wants the SC precisely because of this- its one more club that cannot be used to sc*rew it over in the great game. The same reason it wants the Nuke deal to bypass the NPT (even there, the US has stuck the Hyde thingy as a means to keep India in check).

The UN SC and all these old boys clubs are very useful for the US, the UK and France etc to pursue their geopolitical aims. But that is totally missed by the conservative crowd in the US who only see the UN for what its supposed to be, but not what it is. Its easy talk for me or any Indian to say, sc*rew the UN, what do they matter- but they do matter. They lend legitimacy to a states actions, by putting it across as the consensus of the worlds nations.

Tronic

Actually, you know what? 2-3 years ago, I got my cousin to bring Nokia N-Gage to India from Canada, thinking it would be cheaper. It cost him around 20,000 Rs. from Canada. In India, N-Gage at that time was being marketed at around 6-7000; so their is defenitely still a difference... some items I agree are same in price but a lot aren't, dont know the reason behind it....

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Nabha Sparasham Deeptam
-Touch The Sky With Glory

Archer

Yes it varies per product to product!

Archer

If I missed some points- I'd add, the UN SC is not the only game in town when it comes to coercion or power politics, but its a very visible one and has "legitimacy" since it ostensibly represents the bulk of the worlds nations.

I'd also add that India does have influence over France as well as Russia, when it comes to nations which are not ABCA and of course rivals, such as the PRC, but its influence can go only so far, with the former.

As to how an all out UN + Trade body demarche(s) can affect India- India's current economic growth, and a more pragmatic foreign affairs and economic policy has allowed it much much more leeway than the India of the 1970's, when it comes to withstanding international pressure, but India still needs energy, it still needs trade, and it still needs industrial equipment and even raw material from the west. It still go it alone to a large degree, but it would never be able to meet the aspirations of a huge number of its people, or sustain the kind of economic growth necessary to lift its remaining poverty stricken populace, to middle class standards. Thats the point, conflicts are disruptive, and if it becomes too painful, any democratic leadership, especially one such as in India, which relies on fractious coalitions, might back off for an easy way out.

Julie

Am I on your ignore list or something? I hinted to you at that a few pages back....you know about how much those guns you want so much would cost in India? I was giving you a hint about the cost of things you need from India.

Officer of Engineers

Julie,

I'm a man. Such hints are beyond us.

Julie

I had no idea....I'm not used to that. When me and my husband go shopping, all I have to do is pick up something and stare at it longer than two minutes while in the store, and I will find it Christmas morning under the tree.

I really have to watch that though....about 5 years ago, a week or so before Christmas my husband and I were shopping in a specialty store, and I picked up a beautiful hand painting of a shrimp boat, and after ogling at it a few minutes, I flipped it over and the price tag said $280.00. I immediately put it down. It was under the tree at Christmas, and the next year, the matching one he bought for me as well. Thank God there were only 2 in the set.

I don't shop much anymore with my husband at Christmas if at all possible.

kams

Hmmm there is difference. Products are priced according to the ability of the market to pay the price. Colonels Barbie will not cost equivalent of $200 in India, but will definately cost 10 times more than generics available in India. There is a huge price margin built in to any branded product, which companies use to adjust the prices.

Even in US, when a new design of clothing appears say in Macy's, it will cost say $50. Same item after 6 weeks in the same store is routinely sold at $10-15. You can bet that Macy's are making money even at $10.

I am not arguing for PPP.

kams

My wife also tries to avoid that now a days. Otherday she took me to Macys to buy some clothes for the kids, I spent around $350 on a Beautiful Leather Jacket for her.