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11-25-2006, 20:23 PM
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#1 (permalink)
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Registered User
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Ayaan Hirsi Ali - new video
Transcript and video
New speech by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who received The Freedom Price from the Danish prime ministers party in 2004. Because of the murder of Theo Van Gogh the thank-you-speech was held last weekend on the 18. and 19. of November 2006 i Odense Congress Center in Denmark. Ayaan Hirsi Ali now lives in America.
Video - 23 minutes. Full transcript below. Hirsi Ali said a few words in Danish in her opening remarks. Click on the link below the picture.
Link video: http://ms.arkena.com/show/?k=1163965...6dc9beba931200
Quote:
Values Matter
Goddag. Jeg er meget glad for at være her i dag. Tak fordi jeg måtte komme.
Ladies and gentlemen of Venstre, Danmarks Liberale Parti. Let me start by thanking you for giving me the Freedom Award of Venstre in 2004. At the time I was unable to come and accept this prize in person because this prestigious event coincided with the terrible murder of Theo van Gogh and the decision of my countries security authorities to hide me in the US for my safety.
Today I am honored to be here as a ‘surprise guest’ at this years Party Convention. I was invited by your party leader to say a word or two on values in relation to the issue of the integration of minorities in Europe.
The debate on the integration of non-Western minorities into western societies is essentially a debate on conflicting values and views.
On the one hand there is a clash in faith, ideals, attitude, habits and approach to life between the mainstream of the native populations of Europe and the communities from non-Western countries. Where this clash involves faith it is often some Muslim minorities who find it most difficult to reconcile the demands of their religion with the secular demands of the country they live in.
On the other hand there is a conflict in view (approach) between the political and intellectual elite of European nations on how to deal with this tension between immigrants and natives.
I Clash of values between the immigrants and the natives
For a proper understanding of the roots for the tension between the natives of Europe and those who come in search of a better life from non-Western nations we cannot ignore the difference in moral ethics between and within the societies today’s immigrants come from and the western societies they emigrate to. Of course there are a myriad of differences. But I am only concerned with those differences that might explain the clash in values that we are witnessing today in Europe between the natives and immigrants.
Three are worth mentioning. First, in the non-Western societies that the immigrants of Europe come from the natural conflict between social cohesion and individual liberty have not been settled. Second, no balance has been found between faith and reason. Third, the place of religion in the public arena has not been defined.
Few of the states, in the developing world that were established shortly after the decolonization process are relatively successful. Many have failed. The immigrants who come in search of a better a life and settle here permanently are those who depart from failing or failed states. The loyalty of individuals in these countries to the state is secured by force through the military and police.
States that require absolute obedience from their citizens do not foster knowledge and curb individual enterprise and creativity. Thus any form of education that is felt by the authoritarian state to be in conflict with its interest in power is discouraged. Often, most inhabitants from these weak, failing or failed states revert back to their original tribal or clan or religious loyalties.
Religious, tribal and clan unities in turn demand from their individual members such loyalty that when the interests of the individual collide with that of the group, the individual must give in. As a result only those traits in a person are encouraged that are seen to be essential for the collective. These traits are obedience to the state, tribal or religious authority and the duty to attack (be intolerant of) any behavior by other individuals within or outside of the group that may in anyway undermine the (short-term) common interest of the group in question. Often because tribes and religious groups lack military and police power they secure individual loyalty through superstition and the grooming of their members in elaborate traditions, rites and customs.
Curiosity and scientific research is not encouraged for that will only diminish group cohesion. This leads us to the conclusion that most non-Western immigrants have not gone through the process of individualization, rationalization and secularization that European societies have gone though.
The mere arrival in Paris, London and Berlin from Africa, Asia or the Middle East does not lead a person automatically to a change in attitude, tastes or outlook in life. Values are the results of many years of grooming and can only take many years – even generations – before old morals will be replaced with new ones. I am aware of the fact that I am generalizing.
The reality is of course more complex. There are huge differences between people living in cities and those in the rural areas. There are differences among individuals in the amount of importance they attach to faith and tribal constraints. There are those immigrants who once they come here find it very easy to retain some of their tribal or religious customs that are compatible with life in a hyper-modern society like this one.
It is not my intention to dismiss all immigrants as lacking individuality, ignorant, superstitious and intolerant. My concern is only with those immigrants who have adjustment problems without of course explaining away all adjustment problems as a question of values. It is an attempt to identify those values that some immigrants bring with them from home that might have been a source of survival or even wealth in the country of origin but lead to conflict and or stunt their opportunities here.
II A polarized leadership
The second level of conflict in relation to the future of immigrants in Europe is the disagreement between the politicians and intellectuals (scholars, journalists, publicists, etc) of Europe.
This conflict is not so much about values but about views. One school of thought sees the integration-question primarily as having social-economic causes and therefore social economic remedies. Poverty is the cause of migration and poverty is the cause of bad integration. Once the cycle of poverty is broken the second and third generations will adjust easily.
The best way to break this poverty cycle is through affirmative action. The state must legislate and subsidize an anti-poverty campaign. Poor people eat badly in general and suffer all sorts of health problems and are badly housed. The state must provide the funds for good food (vegetables are more expensive then junk food), health care and proper housing facilities. Neighborhoods should be given youth centers for recreation and sports activities. All these activities are to be performed by the state through social workers and civil servants of the city council.
These street level bureaucrats are to use the services of an army of advisers ranging from anthropologists to experts on child care and experts on conflict mediation. When values are an issue at all, according to this school of thought, the values of immigrants deserve as much respect as those of the natives.
When conflict arises it is state employees who engage so called community leaders and ask them to mediate between neighbors and parents emphasizing all along the importance of tolerance and mutual respect. All extraordinary demands made by minorities in relation to their faith, culture and traditions must be accommodated in principle. Where costs cannot be met by the immigrant communities then the state must help out financially.
Many of those who adhere to this school of thought assume that the source of the tension between immigrants and natives has to do with xenophobia and the desire for natives to discriminate.
Thus they put the burden of the adjustment squarely on the shoulders of the natives. The natives should be patient, tolerant and welcoming. The other approach is held by those who put the emphasis on the social-cultural variables. They believe that the customs and convictions that immigrants bring with them from home can be obstacles to their successful integration here.
This view is held by politicians and scholars who have converted from the social economic approach. It is really a reaction to the failure of the policies that were implemented in the past three to four decades based on the social-economic model.
While this social-cultural approach is relatively new and still very controversial those who hold it do not deny the existence of discrimination and the need for the natives to adjust as well but they put a great deal of the responsibility to integrate on the shoulders of the immigrants.
Immigrants must learn the language of the society they live in. They must not wait until they are ‘activated’ by the state to work but must find jobs themselves. They must learn and accept the constitution and take the initiative to find out about the culture and the habits of the society they live in. Political allegiance is a condition to citizenship and bringing in spouses from the countries of origin must be discouraged through legislation.
Immigrants who have an issue with the policy choices of the state or town they live in must engage in dialogue through the accepted modes of dissent.
Violence is not one of them.
Planned immigration, law enforcement and the stimulation of the individual responsibility of the immigrants is the motto. Discrimination should be eliminated but affirmative action must be limited too. Customs and edicts of faith that curb the freedom of other individuals – including one’s own family members – are not to be tolerated anymore but such perpetrators must be actively brought to justice. Moral and cultural relativism lead more to disintegration and isolation of immigrants and not to their happiness.
Due to several incidents since the 11.th of September – the bombings in Madrid and London, the murder of Theo van Gogh in Amsterdam, the cartoon crisis here, the torching of cars in the suburbs of Paris, the veil-debate in the UK – this view is gaining more and more popularity in almost all the European countries.
The Danish liberal party was perhaps the first to acknowledge that the social-economic approach with its Marxist principles and relativist policies had led to a crisis in the integration of minorities. And that this crisis could – in the light of global events – only get worse. It is your party that adopted a value based agenda.
The first policies to rescue immigrants from a life of state dependency were devised and implemented by your party. Of course with the necessary help from other parties as that is the nature of coalition systems. Other European countries that condemned you five years ago are now coming to learn from you. All this is marvelous and you deserve heartfelt compliments for what you have accomplished.
But does this mean that the clash of values and views has been resolved?
Certainly not!
Fortunately an ever growing number of European leaders accept that such values as individual freedom and responsibility, curiosity, rationality, hard work and tolerance are the key to success in a liberal society. But such values are the result of years of grooming and practice. Education and peer influence make it easier for immigrants to acquire such values and integrate rapidly.
That is why the biggest challenge in the coming years is how to tackle the structural segregation and self segregation of large numbers of immigrants. I am talking about the neighborhoods and schools that have come to be called ‘black’.
Places that are separated from the rest of society through a combustible combination of ethnicity, fanatical religious groups, poverty and crime. For your value-based integration approach to be successful on the long term your party and other liberal parties of Europe need to address this issue with urgency.
Nothing is more controversial than the issue of segregation. In the debate that followed the riots in the French suburbs last year some suggested that the Banlieus be torn down and the inhabitants spread across France.
Tearing down such neighborhoods and relocating communities is of course the best solution for segregation. However, this will not succeed unless those who move and those who live in the neighborhoods where people are moved to see a shared interest in becoming neighbors.
The good thing about political parties is that they seek power in order to reshape society.
The special thing about liberal parties is their love of challenge and belief in progress through trial and error. I can imagine the leadership of this party trying to work out ways to get rid of these ghetto’s and the party members – you, ladies and gentlemen - in persuading regular Danes, of their interest to accept an immigrant as a neighbor and or an immigrant child as a schoolmate to their children.
This effort of persuasion applies to the immigrants in the ghettoes as well.
In any case I wish you good luck and a great deal of common sense in dealing with this and all the other challenges you may encounter in running this valiant nation.
Tak.
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Source: Venstres homepage
Link : http://www.venstre.dk/
Link : http://landsmoede.venstre.dk/fileadm...ndsmoede06.pdf
Last edited by SilleEllis : 11-25-2006 at 20:36 PM.
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01-04-2007, 15:40 PM
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#2 (permalink)
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Registered User
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I am disappointed with the response in this thread ! Don't you know Ayaan Hirsi Ali ? Well, that will just have to change ! 
Quote:
Faced with Radical Islam, Europe Is in Danger of Decay
By Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Posted: Thursday, November 30, 2006
Two years ago, movie director Theo van Gogh’s throat was cut on a street in Amsterdam in the name of radical Islam. I had partaken in his last work, Submission, where we represented, in the most accurate way possible, the condition of Muslim women: tyranny, humiliations, violence. In this film, we showed Muslim women who had finally rebelled, talking to God in a tone of defiance. It made Imam Fawaz of the Hague scream with hate during the delivery of a vengeful sermon. My friend Theo, the “criminal bastard”, was subsequently riddled with bullets and stabbed to death with a dagger.
At the beginning of this November, the trial of the members of a violent Islamic network in the Netherlands entered its final phase. And an entire society today asks itself questions about the integration of its immigrants. While I reside in the United States at present--I’m well-protected here--the invectives of the Imam still ring in my ear, calling for the punishment of Theo, and promising me a Divine curse in the form of blindness combined with cancer of the tongue and cancer of the brain.
Time has passed. After a bad quarrel regarding my Dutch naturalization and my resignation from the Dutch Parliament, I was rapidly rehabilitated. Here I am, once again a Dutch citizen, an émigrée in the United States. Whatever one may say of it, the United States remains in many regards the greatest champion of liberty. At the American Enterprise Institute in Washington, I have more time and more means to diffuse my ideas.
People ask me incessantly what it’s like to live with perpetual death threats. This question is most often asked by Westerners, with the naiveté of those who consider life to be naturally peaceful. Born in Somalia, the daughter of an opponent of Siyad Barré’s dictatorship, I grew up in my country, then in Saudi-Arabia and in Kenya in an environment in which death invited itself without end. A virus, a bacterium, a parasite, a drought, a famine, a civil war, soldiers, torturers: death could take all forms and hit anyone, anytime. When I had malaria, I got well again. When I was circumcised, my wound transformed into scar tissue, and I survived. When my Qur’an teacher fractured my skull, doctors saved me. A bandit put the blade of his knife against my throat: I’m still alive, and more of a rebel than ever before.
I remember Saudi-Arabia where, under the cover of purity, our most minor gestures were haunted by sin and fear: hangings, the cutting off of hands, women controlled and stoned to death, such was and such remains the everyday life of that country. The respect for the literal words of the Prophet is incompatible with human rights, in contradiction to philosophy of classical liberalism. Submerged in a medieval mentality, numerous Muslim countries profit from Western technological advances, pretending to ignore that these advances find their very origin in Enlightenment-thinking. It’s this blindness coupled with hypocrisy that renders the transition towards modernity a most arduous one for the faithful. I quit the world of faith, genital mutilation and forced marriage for that of reason and sexual emancipation. I made the journey towards human rights. At present, I know that one of these two worlds is simply better than the other.
Some, in the West, find such a distinction to be politically incorrect, but it’s necessary to realize that it is Islam which is most traumatized by fundamentalism, not the Western world. Europe only feels the shock waves because of immigration and globalization. It’s by making morality relative and by affirming the equality of cultures that a number of Western intellectuals embark on the path, without realizing it themselves, of self-destruction. Three concepts are at the heart of your culture: 1) freedom of the individual as an end in and of itself, 2) rationality, 3) separation of the scientific and the religious.
Created on a humanist base, your institutions are the expression of the life here on earth, while Islamic philosophy, rejecting individual freedom, submits the individual to God. On Islamic soil, rationality and science enter into a conflict with the Qur’an: any innovation becomes unacceptable. The government cannot be founded on the thought of man: life on earth, after all, is only temporary. It’s necessary to invest in the hereafter. Islam is a cult of the hereafter. Such is the veritable schism with the West: the two world views are incompatible. I, personally, have opted for life in the here and now.
When I was a child in Somalia, under the tree where she braided, my grandmother told us stories and asked us questions, in order to know if we had understood the concept: being able to recognize the enemy, in particular. She told me: “It’s a very useful instinct. If you don’t know what you have to fear, you will not survive.” And when she caught me in flagrante delicto of incomprehension, she called me doqon! This word means two things: being foolish and naïve. We said, in Somalia: “Stupid like a date palm tree!” Dates from that tree are treasures, and the one who loses them is an imbecile.
No, Europe is not traumatized by Islam, but she is like a date palm tree which despoils itself, foolish and naïve. Things fall. She remains inert. Worse, she gives freedom to the enemies of freedom. At the heart of your beautiful West, it is the right-thinking people with a socializing tendency who do this the most, in the spirit of pacifism, voluntary blindness and conformism, when confronted with the rise of fundamentalism, when confronted with the aggressiveness of radicals, when confronted with the dangers of communitarianism. Stupid. Like the data palm tree. Please: don’t be doqon.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a resident fellow at AEI.
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Link: http://www.aei.org/publications/filt...pub_detail.asp |
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01-05-2007, 14:58 PM
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#3 (permalink)
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Regular
Join Date: 11-25-06
Country: 
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Quote:
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Ayaan Hirsi Ali now lives in America.
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Why does she live in America?
Quote:
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Whatever one may say of it, the United States remains in many regards the greatest champion of liberty. At the American Enterprise Institute in Washington, I have more time and more means to diffuse my ideas.
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Oh.
Lets hope that doesn't change because of uncontrolled immigration. |
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01-05-2007, 22:14 PM
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#4 (permalink)
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Registered User
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMartel
Why does she live in America?
Oh.
Lets hope that doesn't change because of uncontrolled immigration.
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Ayaan Hirsi Ali - a member of the Dutch parliament - more or less fled Holland. She gave up her seat in the parliament in the end. She was living under heavy police protection. She wrote the script to the film, Submission, that an islamist murdered Theo van Gogh over. This is it. 11 minutes of free speech, that a man died for. Your irony is a bit misplaced in my view. Press the link.
English version on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Cak...elated&search=
Link: http://ayaanhirsiali.web-log.nl/ayaa...he_film_s.html
Last edited by SilleEllis : 01-05-2007 at 22:28 PM.
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01-06-2007, 00:33 AM
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#5 (permalink)
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Defense Professional
Join Date: 12-10-04
Location: Seattle, WA
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SilleEllis- She mentioned in her speech:
Quote:
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The first policies to rescue immigrants from a life of state dependency were devised and implemented by your party.
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What policies does she refer to? I don't know much about the situation in Denmark compared to the rest of Europe wrt integrating these immigrants. How big is the influx of refugees in Denmark?
Hirsi Ai is a Somali- we have been receiving quite a few refugees from there in recent years. It has put a significant burden on the local education system, since none of these refugees speak the language, and they frequently get very unruly (incidents of violence, etc). The local school district has had to open remedial schools with multi-lingual teachers, etc. A couple regular schools had to be closed due to the budget shortfalls, which didn't go over very well with those families.
They bring customs with them that just don't work here- a couple weeks ago an entire family killed themselves by cooking over charcoal in their apartment (not far from where I live). They died from CO poisoning. A winter storm caused a power outage, and even though they were warned about cooking indoors, they went ahead and did it anyway.
__________________
My baby called me up. She said- Why don't you ever take me out? Pick me up in your brand new car....You shake the short change from the old fruit jar...
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01-06-2007, 01:23 AM
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#6 (permalink)
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Registered User
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highsea
SilleEllis- She mentioned in her speech: What policies does she refer to?
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It has to do with the new programmes. Obligatory Danish lessons, they have to do some work for unemployment money and things like that. Some muslims use the quran to refuse to work. The can't handle pork in fx. shops or restaurants. The can't work in a kindergarten because the babies have eaten pork and therefor have "haram" in their diapers. Danish babies are impure! Things like that have been brought to a stop. (And now a huge number of muslims suddenly have a doctors written statement, that they are to ill to work ! Hrmmmf!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by highsea
I don't know much about the situation in Denmark compared to the rest of Europe wrt integrating these immigrants. How big is the influx of refugees in Denmark?
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Only about 5 pct. are genuine refugees in the UN definition, but some achieved the status of one anyway before we tightened the laws. Another 5 pct. were immigrants from the 70', 80' and 90'. The rest came in an endless chain of family reunification. Even in 4.th generation, the majority of the muslims have arranged marriages - the famous cousin. Who used to be allowed to bring his or her family up here. One in four (1:4) Pakistani muslims i Denmark have incest related diabetes 2 because of cousin marriage. For the Turks it is one out of 8 (1:8). There are a lot of other diseases that follow the children of a marriage between close relatives, but we still haven't forbidden it. Learning disabilities for instance. Especially related to language.
Quote:
Originally Posted by highsea
Hirsi Ai is a Somali- we have been receiving quite a few refugees from there in recent years. It has put a significant burden on the local education system, since none of these refugees speak the language, and they frequently get very unruly (incidents of violence, etc). The local school district has had to open remedial schools with multi-lingual teachers, etc. A couple regular schools had to be closed due to the budget shortfalls, which didn't go over very well with those families.
They bring customs with them that just don't work here- a couple weeks ago an entire family killed themselves by cooking over charcoal in their apartment (not far from where I live). They died from CO poisoning. A winter storm caused a power outage, and even though they were warned about cooking indoors, they went ahead and did it anyway.
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We have stopped the multi-lingual programmes, because they did not improve the children's performance. But all children in Denmark learn English and German obligatory and lessons in French are offered to all children. They also learn to read and understand Norwegian and Swedish. That is in the elementary school system. Public as well as private.
Ayaan Ali Hirsi's English is perfect. She is a female Walid Shoebat and she is a big brain gain. Don't worry!
Wow! Animated avatar! Great!
Last edited by SilleEllis : 01-06-2007 at 01:26 AM.
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01-06-2007, 01:30 AM
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#7 (permalink)
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Defense Professional
Join Date: 12-10-04
Location: Seattle, WA
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I'm not worried about her, lol.
The elementary age kids are not really difficult- it's the older ones, middle school and high school who are the difficult ones. They are way behind their peers academically, and are the ones who cause most of the disruptions.
The special schools have to take a wide age-range of students into the classrooms because of tight funding. So we have 8-9 year olds in the same room as 17-18 year olds, all trying to learn English at the same time.
"Wow! Animated avatar! Great!"
Thanks to Ironduke for getting it back working again.  |
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01-06-2007, 01:45 AM
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#8 (permalink)
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Registered User
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highsea
I'm not worried about her, lol.
The elementary age kids are not really difficult- it's the older ones, middle school and high school who are the difficult ones. They are way behind their peers academically, and are the ones who cause most of the disruptions.
The special schools have to take a wide age-range of students into the classrooms because of tight funding. So we have 8-9 year olds in the same room as 17-18 year olds, all trying to learn English at the same time.
"Wow! Animated avatar! Great!"
Thanks to Ironduke for getting it back working again. |
Oh, we have 10 years in the ordinary school system (6 - 16 years old) and then comes high school. Sorry I was unclear.
We have the same problem about underachievement. But the special classes are all financed with "public money", so in a Scandinavian system with emphasis on institutional welfare, they are not overloaded. The teacher/student ratio is fair and the children have the same age. |
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