Ray

Sniper,

The Indian Army traditions are that of the British Army.

We say boo on matters of principles in so far as military stuff goes. Immaterial stuff as politics does not require public disclosure. After all, we are not running for a political office.

__________________


"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

Ray

Sniper,

You should ahve seen the British Chief of the Army on BBC's Hardtalk.

One could make out very indistinctly that he wasn't too pleased with Blair and possibly he was a voter of the Conservative Party. Yet, Tim Sebastian, who is the host of the show and a tough cookie could not break him down to criticise Blair and the Iraq Campaign!

Now, that is a soldier.

Officer of Engineers

On this, I side with the Brigadier and Hawkeye. The military does not make policy. That's the civilian leadership's job. God help us the day the military decides it does not like the decisions of the civilian leadership and marches on Washington DC to change those decisions. That is worst than obeying stupid laws. That's a military dictatorship.

Thus, I don't allow my people to choose which laws they will obey and which laws they disobey. They will obey all of them. It's alot easier than writing up charges and reading defences which detracts from our real jobs - that of being soldiers.

__________________
Chimo

ChrisF202

Is this true? If so I would say he is an ******* power hungry monster.

Ray

General MacArthur re- enacted his wading through the sea water and landing in the Philipines.

He was a war hero till he acted against the Govt of the USofA's orders and the President sacked him!

Yet, like MacArthur or not, he did great stuff for the US and nothing can change that or history.

Please note that it makes NO difference to Bush or Kerry if I like any or not and so I am non partisan.

Your vote makes all the difference.

Anon

McArthur was a jackass that almost lost us Korea and started a nuclear war.

The military is not questioning the chain of command if a few individual low-ranking Marines say they personally oppose a candidate for office.

If their Bn CO issued a statement to the effect "We here at the 508th MP are opposed to Kerry and will vote for Bush as a group", then you'd have problems.

This was nothing like that.

Chris, yes, that story is true:

"XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX WED JULY 28, 2004 12:56:02 ET XXXXX

CONTROVERSY SURROUNDS KERRY CONVENTION FILM: WAR SCENES REENACTED

**World Exclusive**

A bombshell new book written by the man who took over John Kerry's Swift Boat charges: Kerry reenacted combat scenes for film while in Vietnam!

The footage is at the center of a growing controversy in Boston.

The official convention video introducing Kerry is directed by Steven Spielberg protégé James Smoll.

MORE

Smoll was given hours of Kerry's homemade 8 millimeter film to incorporate into the convention short, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

"Kerry carried a home movie camera to record his exploits for later viewing," charges a naval officer in the upcoming book UNFIT FOR COMMAND.

"Kerry would revisit ambush locations for reenacting combat scenes where he would portray the hero, catching it all on film. Kerry would take movies of himself walking around in combat gear, sometimes dressed as an infantryman walking resolutely through the terrain. He even filmed mock interviews of himself narrating his exploits. A joke circulated among Swiftees was that Kerry left Vietnam early not because he received three Purple Hearts, but because he had recorded enough film of himself to take home for his planned political campaigns."

UNFIT FOR COMMAND will be unleashed next month by REGNERY. [It ranked #1,318 on the AMAZON hitparade Wednesday morning.]

The films shot by Kerry's own Super 8 millimeter hand-held movie camera have the grainy quality of home movies.

MORE

The BOSTON GLOBE reported in 1996 that the Kerry home movies "reveal something indelible about the man who shot them - the tall, thin, handsome Naval officer seen striding through the reeds in flak jacket and helmet, holding aloft the captured B-40 rocket. The young man so unconscious of risk in the heat of battle, yet so focused on his future ambitions that he would reenact the moment for film. It is as if he had cast himself in the sequel to the experience of his hero, John F. Kennedy, on the PT-109."

"John was thinking Camelot when he shot that film, absolutely," says Thomas Vallely, a fellow veteran and one of Kerry's closest political advisers and friends.

NEW YORK TIMES bestselling author Lt. Col. Robert "Buzz" Patterson in his new book RECKLESS DISREGARD, details one of the claimed Kerry reenactments for film:

"On February 28, 1969, now in charge of PCF 94, Kerry came under fire from an enemy location on the shore. The crew's gunner returned fire, hitting and wounding the lone gunman. Kerry directed the boat to charge the enemy position. Beaching his boat, Kerry jumped off, chased the wounded insurgent behind a thatched hutch, and killed him. Kerry and his crew returned within days, armed with a Super 8 video camera he had purchased at the post exchange at Cam Ranh Bay, and reenacted the skirmish on film."

Developing..."

Here's what Bush was doing while Kerry was busy getting dissed by the Marines at Wendys:

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news_...ts/2728.0.html

Anon

BTW, one of the Lawyers at another board i post at took a look at your post here and says he does not believe the Marines violated any part of that statute. Kerry is not the holder of the office of president of the united states, so them stating that individually they support Bush over Kerry for that position is 100% legal.

If you reversed it, then it would be illegal. They could not say- for instance- that they supported Kerry but opposed Bush, because Bush IS the president.
Also, if they said they supported an opponent of a sitting senator they'd be in violation- but none of them said that.

Ray

Sniper,

The more I read and learn about the US from all of you Americans, I get not only amazed but also very bewildered, if not perplexed.

I really cannot understand the ethos wherein a Marine Sgt can be rough with a Presidential candidate and Senator and yet the same Sgt (or his bold type) would say nothing if someone his senior is fudging a film of combat (if indeed he did nothing)! And that too in an era of conscription (draft) where chaps just didn't want to go and were looking for their tenure to end!

I am sure given the 'boldness' that is in the US troops and the penchant for individual rights over everything else amongst its citizens, it is surprising that no one blew the whistle long back!

I am also aware of the 'interesting' way, men with money power, can ruin another's reputation. Of course, I have no direct knowledge, it is from the media (US) and books like 'First Among Equal' (?) etc etc.

That these books are not totally fictional but are well researched is not of doubt because I am astounded with new things I have learned from the book I am currentoly reading 'The Da Vinci Code'. Arthur Hailey is another writer who fascinates me with his research.

Ray

MacArthur was not a jackass as far as his military acumen went. He did an excelled job for the US in the Pacific.

In Korea if you nuked, maybe you wouldn't have the nuke problem that the world is facing in N Korea! They may have become as loyal as Japan

Notwithstanding, your view on MacArthur maybe as valid if seen from another perspective.

Ray

Kerry has THREE Purple Hearts.

Self inflicted? I am sure someone would also say that it was re-enacted.

I am not for or against Kerry or anyone, but I would hate anyone decrying anyone who went to Vietnam. Remember, every hated or was fearful of a tenure there! Clinton bolted. Bush used daddy and megabucks to go into some safe airforce job on the mainland and then went missing! But Kerry went and he did something to get at least the Three Purple Heart.

How would you feel Sniper if you were work, lets say in Iraq or Nam was decried as fudging by armchair 'soldiers' in airconditioned comfort in a posh penthouse in NY or a 1000 horse ranch?

If indeed Kerry had fudged, someone should have spoken then and he should have been courtmartialled. If not, then there is a whole lot of doubt that those claiming are themselves fudging.

If you are a soldier - a combat soldier who has seen combat - I will always support you if someone criticises your tenure. To face a bullet is not the same thing as flying an aircraft over mainland USA. Only those who have faced the guns as the volleyed and thundered would know the real meaning of General Patton's famous saying - 'Courage is nothing but keeping a tight ******* so that your brains don't fall out!' or words to that effect.

Officer of Engineers

Sir,

MacArthur's "excellent job" in the Pacific was written by the self-promoting MacArthur himself. The other PTO cmdr, Admiral Nimitz did a far more effective job at killing the IJN and thus winning the Pacific War.

MacAthur wasn't talking about nuking Korea. He was talking about nuking China, and actually voiced support for a KMT invasion of China from Formosa/Taiwan.

Officer of Engineers

You know Israel throw bombs at her neighbours to settle her problems. Canada and the US throw lawyers at each other. Reading your post, I think the Israelis are the more humane ones.

Anon

Ray, Bush was an F-106 Delta Dagger pilot. The F-106s nickname was 'the widow maker'.

I would not call being a fighter pilot 'a safe job'.

At the time of Bush's service his sqn was tasked to NORAD, so had a role of the utmost importance.

Kerry volunteered for swift boats BEFORE they were sent to vietnam.

He spends three months in combat, gets three purple hearts(without spending a single night in a hospital- that's a neat trick), and a silver star. That's sure some accomplishment.........or some serious B.S.

Considering what his former shipmates have to say about him, i have to conclude it's B.S.

Three purple hearts got you out of Vietnam. Took Kerry only three months to put himself in for them. One was legitimate, one was questionable, and one was flat-out fraudulent.

Anon

LOL, OOE, i definitely can relate to your idea of the Israeli way inflicting less long term suffering.

ChrisF202

If only so many people werent brainwashed by that man into hating Bush