Confed999

This looks like a good page: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html . I found a few individual stats that were pretty close to these, and there are alot here. So taking one of the ones near the center it would take 2.7 billion acres to provide 30 million barrels of oil a day.
EDIT: The inefficency of veggie oils wasn't taken into account in the above calculation. It would be about 3.4 billion acres instead. An acre is equal to 43,560 square feet (4047 square meters).
80% or so unfortunatly, so it will take 25% more veggie oil to do the same job. That inefficency is why sports cars don't have deisel engines.
OK, firstly the veggie oils only take care of part of the problem as they are all light oils and heavy oils are still needed. Secondly after raping the enviornment enough to grow crops to provide 30+ million barrels of oil a day, one still has to process the stuff into fuel! Creating veggie oil, or even frementing it, then creates solid and liquid organic wastes, and in quantities that great it will definitely become a problem.

In short, as has allready been said, veggies alone aren't going to do the trick. Personally I like solar, hydro and thermal. Beyond their initial creation they produce little, if any, pollution and ones like hydro can be used to revive natural areas by creating lakes.

__________________
No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

tw-acs

The phasing out of petroleum based fuels will allow for a smooth transition and allow for the yeilds of the vegetable oil crops to increase, through selective breeding and proper growing methods.

Inefficiency of the internal combustion engine could be greatly reduced if the heat that is produced from combusting the fuel was not wasted.

A 174 cubic inch steam engine is the equivalent of a 735 cubic inch internal combustion engine.

The heat from an internal combustion engine should be utilized by creating steam not just to cool the engine but to power it also; a hybrid engine with multiple powerplants: Bio-Diesel, Steam, Man power, Fuel Cell (if hydrogen is feasible - electrolysis to split hydrogen and oxygen atoms) for electricity storage and all other applicable available options.

Your math is strange. Bio diesel works just fine.

"A common objection to biomass energy production is that it could divert agricultural production away from food crops in a hungry world -- even leading to mass starvation in the poor countries.

True or not? Not true: at best it's an oversimplification of a complex issue. It just doesn't work that way, and neither does hunger."

That is from the same site you quoted. As is this:

Car facts
From Grist Magazine
http://www.gristmagazine.com/grist/c...nter011900.stm

70 million motor vehicles were on the world's roads in 1950.
630 million motor vehicles were on the world's roads in 1994.
1 billion motor vehicles are expected to be on the world's roads by 2025, if the current growth rate continues.
50 million new cars roll off the assembly line each year -- 137,000 a day.
27 tons of waste are produced in the manufacture of the average new car.
11 million cars are junked annually in the US.
12,000 pounds of carbon dioxide are emitted by the average car each year.
5% of a car's fuel can be wasted by underinflated tires.
2 billion gallons of gasoline could be saved annually if 65 million car owners kept their tires properly inflated.
85% of auto fuel is consumed just to overcome inertia and start the wheels turning.
2.5 times more emissions are generated by SUVs (Sports Untility Vehicles) and light trucks than by standard cars.
33,000 natural gas vehicles were in use in the US in 1993.
75,000 natural gas vehicles were in use in the US in 1998.

12,000 pounds of carbon dioxide are emitted by the average car each year.

630 million motor vehicles were on the world's roads in 1994.

50 million new cars roll off the assembly line each year -- 137,000 a day.

2004 -1994 = 10 years

10 years * 50 million motor vehicles = 500 million motor vehicles

500 million motor vehicles + 630 million motor vehicles = 1,130 million motor vehicles

1,130 million motor vehicles * 12,000 pounds of Carbon Dioxide =
1,356,000,000,000 pounds of Carbon Dioxide released into the atmosphere from motor vehicles during 2004

Photosynthesis is the best process known to man to convert carbon dioxide.

Also notable is other wastes produced in association with automibles.

Horses would be so much easier.

Turbine Engines have plenty of power for race cars.

Bio diesel has much better mileage than gasoline.

Organic waste is natural and biodegrable, It is called compost...**** it comes out of your ass.

The significant impacts on the environment from your suggested methods of allocating energy raise my concern.

My suggested method will help reverse the increase of Carbon Dioxide in our atmosphere.

Go watch "The Day After Tommorow" it is a good movie.

http://www.thedayaftertomorrowmovie.com/

Check it out! How much extinction of life will wake you up!

Will you wake up when humans are extinct?

More Truth than Hype

Leader

The movie is scientifically wrong. I'm sure it's a great disaster movie, but that doesn't make it reality. Your doom and gloom is laughable. If the world were as bad as you say, why would you bother living? According to you, Iraq is a disaster, America is based on murder, American policies are immoral, American economic system is immoral, the economy is the worst since the Great Depression, and humanity is on the verge of mass extinction. Rather Depressing.

__________________

tw-acs

I did not say it was reality, and as the creators of the movie said we would like to keep it that way, fiction. Human beings do not possess the computer technology to calculate the atmosphere and weather exactly and because we suspect that the increase in carbon dioxide released from volcanic eruptions and or from space debri caused the last ice age. I think it very relavent to be concerned about 1,356,000,000,000 pounds of Carbon Dioxide released into the atmosphere from motor vehicles during 2004 alone. Knowing the rate at which we consume and thus pollute increases with every unit of time I think it would be wise to find a way to not allow for the increase of carbon dioxide because simple we do no know how much could cause significant changes in the environment.

Praxus

30 Years ago: Global Cooling!!!

10 Years ago: Global Warming!!!

Now: Climate Change!!!


Make up your damn mind. The facts show that there is no significant rise or decrease in tempature and the climate is not changing at any significant ammount.

tw-acs

-Praxus
Lets see the facts.

I have noticed significant change.

-tw-acs

Leader

Ice ages are cyclical. I've never heard that carbon dioxide caused the last ice age. The most popular current theory is that Ice ages are caused small shift in the axis of rotation of the Earth. Either way they do not happen over night. They occur gradually over thousands of years.

tw-acs

Theories are still theories, nonetheless. A new theory that is not been proven does not discredit an existing theory that has not been proven.

I did not mean to say that Carbon Dioxide was the only factor involved in creating an Ice Age. I did not mean to say that an Ice Age would occur from the Carbon Dioxide but something of that degree becomes more likely to happen as we increase the amount of Carbon Dioxide without completing the Carbon Cycle by growing enough plants to purify the air.

Also producing food, fuel, textiles, compost, medicine, and not to mention the jobs from another US industy that would not replace petroleum and related industries but create much needed competition and an alternative that has potential to be a sustainable energy source and much more.

Confed999

I was actually way off, in 2002 the world required over 53 million barrels of oil a day!

So, approximately 4 barrels per acre into 53 million barrels per day equals 13.25 million acres per day times 365 days equals 4.8 billion acres per year times 1.25 for inefficency comes to a grand total of 6 billion acres per year.

Sorry about that!

Trooth

I agree they aren't going to do the trick by themselves, but at some point we have to look at some alternatives because :-
1) we are going to run out of the animal oil
2) Our dependancy on crude is not only going to cause us a problem if we don't address it, but it doesn't exactly make the world a safer or politically more stable place.

I have no belief that one energy solution is going to solve the problem. But what is clear is that other stuff should be tried. When people in the UK converted their cars to run on vegetable oil (and they were using the waste fat from Fish and Chip shops so it burning stuff that was going to be dumped anyway) HMC&E came after tham as it was basically a fuel.

As for diesel powered sports cars one came 8th in the Le Mans 24hour this year. So i guess a diesel sports car won't be that far off our roads.

Confed999

Show me one that can top a nitro-methane dragster and I'll agree.

Trooth

Heehee. Do you have a lot of those on the roads near you?

Confed999

This is the country that made a car that goes mach 1.03, because they were bored. Really, my neighbor races amateur and he runs it up the street occasionally, does that count?

Leader

Given that the useable farming land on the earth is 15-20 billion acres max, it is unlikely that 30 to 40 % of that would be converted to create fuel. Not to mention that 3 to 4 billion acres of that number is rain forest.

Confed999

We need that to grow food! In order to prevent over farming approx. 25% need to remain fallow, so all of that is not usable at one time.