jth298

Come on... you can't be that much in denial.

themuffinman

Show me the facts that we murdered people? In war people get killed not murdered.


Wednesday, May 26, 2004 1:01 p.m. EDT

Media Yawn as Saddam's Torture Victims Thank Bush

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...6/130918.shtml

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Pain is just weakness leaving the body. USMC
Semper Fi

jth298

Well... there are increasing numbers of soldier testimonies to the effect that they are doing as such... I am not a fan of Michael Moore but his 'Soldier Letters' make for interesting reading... combined with those that I have seen on less partisan media sources (Channel 4, BBC 4 and BBC 5 Radio for example)....

this is of course a debateable point...

Less ambiguous I feel is the death of detainess as a result of torture. To me, that is murder.

Officer of Engineers

It really doesn't matter. To this day, Croats believed that Major-General Lewis Mackenzie ran a brothel and I was the day-to-day operational manager (I WISHED!!!!!!).

The point is that people will believe what they want to believe and no amount of facts is going to sway them. All you can do is affect your local surroundings. The local Croats KNEW there was no brothel.

All the US can do is to show their hands locally. "Yes, torture may go one at AG but you're safe here. Just don't force me to send you there."

As for the Congo, I've had it. I have had it with the UN, keep asking for Western troops while not picking up the slack themselves. All you need to do good is the will to do good. To this day, I cannot understand how countries like Canada and Australia slammed Chptr 7 Interventions (aka military invasions) down the UN throat but Nigeria and the likes sat back and did nothing in Rwanda. Clean up your own houses before demanding we empty ours.

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Chimo

themuffinman

I guess-it's-ok-to-murder-evil-americans-911wasnt that bad

it's ok to advocate the murder of americans but put some panties on an Iraqi prisoners right.

it's honorable for a suicide bomber to blow up a building and kill innocent people but it's not ok to embarass prisoners??
I went to BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2144342.stm no wonder you english think the way you do thats a very Liberal News Agency.
Sorry I guess if thats the kind of news you get thats how you are going to think.

ChrisF202

Im fed up with the US and Britian constantly having to do everything, where are the other nations in the UN? Why dont the Germans, French or Russians do something for once? Yeah, France does parcipate, but only when a former French coloy is a stake (Haiti, Congo and Ivory Coast).

Trooth

The UN is just an umbrella for national interest endeavours. All nations appear to be equally guilty. It it isn't that good work isn't done, its just the for the peacekeepers to get sent the politicians have to sign up, and they sign up on national interest lines.

OofE, when the peacekeeping missions come up doe the nation states have to volunteer their forces or is their any compulsion or rota system?

Trooth

There has been rubbish reporting on all sides. I mean, look at Jessica Lynch, that was a complete propaganda job. Blanks and all.

Officer of Engineers

The UN bureaucrazy goes hat in hand to several member nations on their list (mostly Western European, UK, Canada, Australia, India, Pakistan, Nigeria, Fiji) and start begging. The answer is not always yes.

Chapter 7 Intervention is usually when a country has had enough and told the UN that they're going in regardless of their support or not which usually forces the UN to give support. Up front examples would be the Americans in Kuwait and Somalia, the Australians in East Timor, the French in Rwanda, the Canadians in the Congo. After the fact examples would be SFOR and KFOR.

Confed999

No, you don't. If you did you couldn't say:
Because, call it peacekeeping or not, it is an invasion. There are people with the motive of profit involved in this engagement. The Congo is rich with resources including uranium and cobalt both monitarily more valuable than oil. There will be propaganda about "the real motives" the instant it started, people would die by the dozens, and the media would show it to us live. In short, if you can't understand Iraq, then you can't agree with what I was saying.

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No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

Confed999

All you need to do good is the will to do good... Nice, I will remember that.

Officer of Engineers

Of the Big 5 (Russia/USSR, US, UK, PRC, France), France and the UK each individually outperformed the other three combined. The Germans, like the Japanese, had a revulsion for any expeditionary affair.

French non-former colony participation (off the top of my head) - UNPROFOR/IFOR/SFOR I & II/KFOR, Operation Desert Shield & Storm, Iraq no fly zones, Afghanistan (both Operation Enduring Freedom and the International Stablization Assistance Force), Albania, East Timor, Somalia, UNMEE.

The only significant German and Russian are involved in SFOR II/KFOR. The Germans just returned from the ISAF and they're exhausted from that committement.

Of course, German SOF were involved in Afghanistan. In fact, ALL NATO SOF was in that fight.

Leader

And to prove this by making anti-American statements. You will forgive me if I assess you on your beliefs and not simple knee jerk denials.

Whether you agree with the American position or not, it is logically valid and thought out.

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Trooth

I agree with the latter, it is definitely thought out to arrive at a goal. As to whether the route is logically valid is a different matter. If the goal is reached we may well still end up with the old "does the end justify the means".

ChrisF202

ex. the removal of Saddam (war) was justified by his actions