Canmoore

Canadian soldiers in afghanistan are three times more likely than british soldiers to be killed. And four and a half times more likely than American soldiers.

This report also indicates that a Canadian soldier in Afghanistan is six times more likely to be killed, than an american soldier in Iraq.

"In comparison, Germany — which, like Canada, has slightly more than 2,000 troops in Afghanistan — has suffered no deaths from hostile action since February and only six since 2001."

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Canadian foriegn affairs minister Peter MacKay has called on other NATO nations to do more.

"I think that there's clearly NATO countries that can do more," Peter MacKay said at a joint news conference in Halifax with his Australian counterpart, Alexander Downer

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Officer of Engineers

The brutal honesty is that we are not ready for that mission.

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Chimo

PubFather

It terms of what OoE? Equipment/training or numbers in the ground for the mission you are being asked to carry out?

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Nemo Me Impune Lacessit - Scottish Motto

"They that approve a private opinion, call it opinion; but they that dislike it, heresy; and yet heresy signifies no more than private opinion” Thomas Hobbes - Leviathan

Canmoore

I attribute this to the fact that since the 80's our military has been contracting, shrinking. The Liberals under chretien cut the military budget to clear the deficit. However this left our military on life support. Ive heard military personell who just want better boots....thats how bad it had gotten.

I used to work in a base, and i remember looking at the military vehicles, the large trucks parked on the cracked and crumbling parking lots, they were basically antiques, rusting away

When i was just a kid i lived not to far away from the airfield, i remember going and watching the planes take off towing gliders. Now the airfield is unusable, with potholes and grass growing in the cracks.

While working on this base, I had a sence that the Canadian military was there, but not really there. They trained to wage war, but the sence that the military would ever go to war, just wasnt there. The military had just degraded to a point where i no longer took it seriously.

I grew up on, and around this particular base, i remember the stickers that you had to have on your car to enter the base, i remember the guards at the checkpoint when entering the base and how you had to stop and give your name and where and what you were doing on base. It seemed very serious then, but then it stopped.
The checkpoint was empty, no more guards, you could drive into the base and no one would even know that you were there. ...All in the name of cutting costs

I remember when 911 happened, and there were guards in the checkpoint building again, but only for a month, then it was empty again.

It was only a year after 911 that i moved away from that particular area, and i have lost contact with the comings and goings of base life. But there is a sence now, that the military has purpose, it seems more serious now.

But all those years of decay i think left a mark on the military. And afghanistan is showing it. A month ago a mechanic in afghanistan asked the Minister of Defence when the new trucks will be arriving, because "its taking alot of spit and bubblegum" to keep the ones we have, on the road.

Our military was brought to the brink, and while it is now, starting to come away from the brink, it is thrown into a dangerous mission, a mission where our allies are not helping us. This MUST be playing a role, in why we are sustaining so many casualties.

Officer of Engineers

In terms that we have no idea what we're doing. This is an insurgency and we suck at it. We don't have the experience, we don't have the know how. Hell, we don't even have the books.

In a conventional fight, we win. Our casualties are extremely light despite what this report suggests. The Taliban's are extremely heavy also despite what the report suggests. However, we are seen to be hurting while they hide their hurt.

And this is not what was envisioned. What was envisioned was the ANA taking the lead with NATO in support. The few times the Canadians operated with the ANA, they were friendly fire disasters. Operationally, it was far more effective for the Canadians to go it alone - going it alone with only 2200 troops ain't exactly ideal.

We can show all the Taliban bodies we want, it ain't going to show the folks we're winning. In the meantime, we're seeing families crying over our Fallen. We see the Taliban cheering and screaming for vengence at theirs.

We can win the conventional fight. Nine dead versus 500 ain't exactly a fight between equals. But the hearts and mind fight, we're not doing that very well.

Bluesman

Brutally honest appraisal.

For the record, and I know I don't have to tell you something you already know - I, for one, appreciate the hell out of Harper taking this up, and the Canadians pitching in like good'uns. You're right, this is NOT the ideal mission for the force as it is currently structured, and it calls to mind Rummy's very true statement that you go to war with the force you have. It's not fair, it's not easy, but dammit, Canada is THERE, and I'd just like to thank the ones that are soldiering right now, and the ones that laid down their lives while they served.

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"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell

Canmoore

The canadian media isnt helping either. They are blowing this way out of proportion. During this countries beloved peackeeping missions, we were also loosing lots of men, but you NEVER saw the same coverage that there is today.

Today we are fighting a war, all of a sudden people think that because we havnt been in an official war since the 50's that Canada is somehow a nation of peackeepers and not war fighters. So seeing coffins with the maple leaf drapped over every week isnt really helping the homefront, which inturn affects the moral of the soldiers fighting.

And then lunatics like Jack Layton have the audacity today, in the face of having 4 soldiers killed while they were handing candy out to children, to say that this conflict isnt helping the afghan people, and we are just making it worse. How does he sleep at night?

Bluesman

There was a Canadian corporal that served with me when I first came to CENTCOM as a civilian contractor. We both worked in Open Source Intelligence, and became friendly with each other.

I'm ashamed to say I forgot his name, but I knew who was being referred to when we got word that he'd been killed in Afghanistan. He was a volunteer for the mission, and had to get a special permission to serve two consecutive 'away' tours. It was granted, he went...and he died there.

He was the most affable, jovial, good-natured guy, carried a bit of weight, and maybe wasn't the first draft pick for the team. But he was smart, worked hard, and loved his country. I liked him most of all because he was so obviously taken with the 'States, and wanted to make a good impression of his country.

In my opinion, he upheld the reputation that the Canadian Army made for itself in Flanders fields, at Normandy, and along the badly-named DMZ in Korea. Canada misses a good man, and I am more than a bit sad myself when I think about him.

Canmoore

Hey officer will you be going to the hill this friday at noon to support the mission and the troops?

I know for dam sure that i will be there. I really hope that this pans out well, if we have like 10, 20 even 30 thousand people show up it would be amazing. I desperately hope that it isnt only 3-6 thousand who show up. That would be disasterous.

But dammit i will be there.

Bluesman

Holy smoke. I found that old post, where I wrote about him.

Check it out.

Made me even MORE sad.

Canmoore

That is sad, there are many stories like his. There was a reservist killed a few months back, he had served in Bosnia, and he was on his second Afghanistan deployment. And he was killed. Talk about dedication.

Officer of Engineers

We CANNOT abandon the fight. The Canadian Forces WILL NOT abandon the fight. If we were the Soviets, we parade those dead Taliban like trophies. We've won a major victory. The Taliban is going to go broke this winter. We've cut off a big source of their drug money.

We and the Brits have given the NGOs their chance. The fight is now theirs.

I frankly could not care less what Jack Layton says. Rick Hilliar runs the show. Canada gave Her Word under the Liberals. Canada kept Her Word under the Conservatives. The NDP don't know squat about the word Honour.

Yes, Canmoore, I'm going to be there, along with everybody who is allowed to go from 101.

Officer of Engineers

Gentlemen,

This is NOT the time for sadness. This is a time for Pride. These men MADE A DIFFERENCE. They've done Canada proud. They've done us Proud. If I have to remember them, I will remember them with pride.

Canmoore

Amen

Bluesman

Do me a favor tomorrow - in your mind, think that we're both there. If there's a quiet part of the ceremony, think of a Canadian Army corporal and a USAF master sergeant one pace right flank rear of where you're standing. Okay?