Grim Reaper

Forum after forum, I can't find which one is the truth? People claim that Pakistan won all the Indo-Pak wars and others claim India won all.

What is the truth?

1947-who won? India or Pakistan?
1965-who won? India or Pakistan?

All I want is the truth, nothing else.

hound

1948: Under JL Nehru's feminine policies, India was more than happy to push the pakos out of its borders and did not go in to take the whole Kashmir.

1965: Pakos did the same style insurgency like in 1948 and built up on it so much so that IA was under great pressure in Kashmir. IA opened a new southern front from Punjab and went all the way to the outskirts of Lahore but did not attack it despite waiting for few days outside, with city well withing artellery and mortar range. Russians brokered a cease-fire deal in Tashkent and end result: Indians ceded every inch of territory they gained in south and also ceded some of their own territory in Kashmir. So I would say, net result Pakos had the better deal.

1971: IA under a Jewish Commander Jacobs on eastern front pulled in some very cleaver moves and bypassed the whole of Pako defenses and reached Dhaka quickly. IN and IAF also gained quick superiority and Pakos surrended facing total annihiliation. 90K pows taken. In Kashmir, Pakos tried to open a front and penetrated but were soon repelled back. Under Chinese and US pressure, IA did not finish off Pakos in the west. India won decisively

1999 Kargil: Same insurgency but at higher levels. Total intelligence failure or rather a Sikh brigedier was feeding bogus reports to the New Delhi with 'All is well' headings. It was the locals and sheep herders who reported the foreign looking men in camps. IAF and IA joint operations were were stagnant due to tough bombing targets until IAF brought in Mirage2000 and IA used Bofors artellery in innovative manners. Still it was hand to hand fight on the hill tops and IA lost 450 soldiers with Pakos North Infantry disguising as insurgenents losts thousands like upto 5000. India was able to push out the insurgents but had balls gone too soft and artellery shells very low in spare numbers to go into Pak and do some heavy destruction. It is said India had to launch a bigger operation a couple of years later to flush out same elements. India is shi*t when it comes to taming Pakistan.

2002 Dec Terrorist Attack: India mobilized forces threatening war but that all they could do, no balls to do anything else. At the cost of $400M per month for 90% force mobilization, Indian troops were out of the barracks and on the border for whole 5 months at the total cost of $2B. After showing their faces to Pakos they decided to show their asssssesss and come back to their peacetime bases. Again, Pak still sponsors terrorism inside India at will and India proves to be shi*t when it comes to handling Pak.

These were my unbiased views. Look forward to views from other members and especially those who think Indian Pilots are the best, even better than US and Israel.

Grim Reaper

Thank you very much, I'd also like to point out that I don't want any biased statements from anyone who may post here. All I want is the truth and nothing but the truth, thank you.

Archer

God, another d1ck measuring contest, dont you people ever learn?

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Karthik

Nicely put, Archer.

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Ray

Grim Reaper,

Check this site:

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-F...rmy/Link3.html

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"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

Ray

Hound,

That you are not an Indian is proved since you emphasise the Jewish aspect of General Jacob. And you don't know that it was Lt Gen Jagjit Singh Arora who was the Army Commander, Eastern Command and Jacob was his Chief of Staff.

But obviously, you wanted to play the Jewish card and indicate your true colours and pet hates!

No Indian bothers about who is a Jew and who is not.

And as far as your narration is concerned, you have left them half coc-ked so as to straddle the issue.

Why do you straddle?

Obviously you cant let yourself down, can you?

You indeed come out as real half coc-k!

hound

Ray Dude,

Truth hurts, seems it hurt you real good.

joey2

Hound you missed one point .. i dont have much idea about the previous wars but in kargil war it was the **** politicians that refrained the IAF from using its own way of attack instead it was tied down and chained down to maintain the orders as it comes form centre.
u cannt question the credibility of IAF from kargil when they wasnt given any freedom to attack beyond enemy lines.

Grim Reaper

I also want to confirm something else. Pakistan claims a 3:1 ratio kill over the IAF, but India denies it. Is this true or false?

Tronic

Pakistan claimed the same for their army aswell... now you tell me if that is true or false and then you'll get your answer...

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Tronic

listen troll... you're little "divide and rule" tactics aint gonna work against us... so you can crawl back from wherever you popped out of...

Akshay

I havn't come across any neutral article claiming Pakistan tohave achieved 3:1 kill ratio. Here is from Global security

India-Pakistan war in 1965


There is no account of aircraft losses during 1971 war (or atleast I havn't been able to find any). But still, that 3:1 kill ratio is over hyped. Important is that at no time during the war did Pakistan Air Force been able to achieve air dominance over Indian Airspace. I havn't read anything about Chuck Yeager's comment anywhere either.

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Tronic

Chuck Yeager is one biased bastard... he was the US Defense Representative to Pakistan at a time when US was giving their full support to Pakistan...

Akshay

I wouldn't goon to the extent of calling him a biased b@stard but also, I find it hard to believe that he could calculate simply by looking at the amount of rubble on the ground. Pak claims to have lost 34 planes then by that account India lost over 100 planes. That number itself is friggin huge. OK, I can believe that India lost more planes than Pakistan. When intruding into enemy airspace,it is bound that some aircrafts would be lost to the ground missiles. But, then those do not account for air kill ratio.