Parihaka

LOL, that explains it

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In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz

ArmchairGeneral

See, gunnut's right. They do have abundant resources.

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Obsidian_Masque

America IS at a turning point-- close the borders, stop allowing (let's be honest) non-whites in, or, open our borders, expand over the whole planet and in 50 years begin to LOOK like the rest of the planet.

The immigration issue is THE issue for 2008, not Iraq.

leib10

Immigration MUST be stopped at all costs. I see firsthand how immigration is destroying our country, right here in my hometown.

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"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man

canoe

Someone made a good point earlier, if you look at all the big superpowers that lasted more then a few decades what did they all have in common?

I think India or Japan probably has the best chance of maybe one day taking over the number one position economically.

I don't think anyone will ever supercede the U.S or Russia militarily however. Both countries have the capability to pretty much obliterate the world. Although Russia's nuclear stockpile is beginning to show serious signs of age, in time it might become irrelivent simply because most of the stockpile will be unreliable. The U.S is addressing this somewhat by designing their next generation of warheads to have extremely long shelf lives (hundreads of years).

canoe

I think the U.S and *many* other countries right now are suffering a bit of xenophobia because of the whole Islamic terrorist thing. Theres a whole lot of 'I don't want people bringing their crap into my country' going on in alot of western countries right now.

astralis

obsidian, leibstandarte,

tell that to the people in silicon valley, or for that matter our science programs all across the nation. look how many of those said people are non-white/immigrants.

immigration is the one thing keeping our birth rate from going down the tubes. for that matter, in a shorter time frame, immigration is what is giving the US its huge scientific capabilities- especially considering how less and less native-born Americans are taking science educations and jobs.

astralis

canoe,

you must be kidding me (a good deal more emphatically on the part regarding japan, though).

japan's population is on the verge of shrinking some 25%+ in the next 25-30 years. the only way to solve such a problem is through immigration. however, the japanese are probably some of the most xenophobic people in the world. i don't see immigration policies relaxing anytime soon. japan's just barely worked through its structural financial problems. it's now facing a far more serious and basic question, that of pure demographics.

as for india, if india can get through huge bureaucratic log-jams, cut down on the red-tape, and free itself more fully from the shadows of a socialist past (along with screechings of the maoists as detailed on the other thread)...it will be in good shape. work is being done on all those accounts; however, those challenges are not small, indeed.

canoe

Well I picked India and Japan which are currently in the 5th and 6th slots after the EU (which isen't even a country) and China.

I have a feeling China is going to screw themselves, their government is way to over controlling of their economy and historically governments that try to micromanage their economies have always crashed an burned. Also their GDP has a growth rate of nearly 10% which is rediculus. There is no way thats sustainable for any country. Most of the free market based countries are in the 2-4% range. If China keeps it up their going to end up dramaticlly over valueing their own economy and its going to come crashing down.

astralis

canoe,

you need to seriously read up on what china's economy is like, as well as past histories of other economies (both in the region and outside of it). i don't want to sound rude, but...

if this was the case, how does china achieve such high rates of growth? on the contrary, the chinese gov't, since the 1980s, has being moving its hands off the economy. these days, many investors look at the difference between how the chinese and the indian (or for that matter, southeast asian) bureaucracies treat investors...and guess which one they deem is friendlier/easier to deal with.

japan had similar growth rates from the 1950s straight till the mid 1970s. after slowing down for approximately 5 years, they went into a second boom throughout the 1980s.

same with singapore, south korea, and taiwan. (only the dates of boom are different.)

most free market economies are in the 2-4% range because their GDP per capitas are fairly high, and their population is fairly saturated. large middle-class.

none of those conditions apply to china as of yet.

Obsidian_Masque

Astralis-

We need to take the time to think very clearly about what unfettered immigration will do to the US, and Western Europe. Look at Canada-
soon, Canada will cease to be a European country. It is only a matter of time. The debate should come to the fore-- the debate WILL come to the fore, especially at we approach the 2008 elections.

astralis

obsidian,

you're talking to both a non-european and an immigrant. past that, you seem to forget that america is a country built upon immigration. of course, i am a bit suspicious as to your motives because you pointed out that the people coming in are non-white.

what of it? does that mean you would support european immigration but not asian immigration, or african immigration?

are there any reasons in particular why you think non-european immigrants cannot hold the same values that european/european-immigrants do in the US?

HistoricalDavid

Obsidian_Masque

Astralis-

My question is: especially in today's world, with global communications, modern immigrants retain their home cultures. This splits America into a plethora of non-western cultures. What kind of society is that?
Doesn't America get to decide what her future will look like?

Shek

No, what you are seeing is that it takes 2-4 generations before full assimilation happens.

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