Pakistan sheltering Taliban, says British officer

Hari_Om · 05-19-2006, 10:04 AM

The British step up to the plate on Pakistan’s running with the hares and hunting with the hounds. Not the first of the European militaries to do so either. Earlier the Dutch had this to say :

Quote:

"Although the Pakistani security forces are busy rounding up foreign militants in the areas bordering Afghanistan, supporters of the Taliban are largely being left undisturbed"

President Hamid Karzai will be feeling his comment "Pakistani intelligence gives military training to people and then sends them to Afghanistan with logistics", stands vindicated :

Quote:

Pakistan sheltering Taliban, says British officer

· Colonel's outburst follows multiple terror attacks
· Afghanistan president says Quetta used as base

Declan Walsh in Kandahar
Friday May 19, 2006
The Guardian

A senior British officer accused Pakistan of allowing the Taliban to use its territory as a "headquarters" for attacks on western troops in Afghanistan as insurgents struck on multiple fronts yesterday.

In one of the worst 24-hour periods since they were ousted from power in 2001, the Taliban launched two suicide bombs, numerous firefights and a massive assault on a village in Helmand province, where 3,300 British soldiers are being deployed. The violence, which started on Wednesday night, caused 105 deaths including 87 Taliban, 15 police, an American civilian and a Canadian woman soldier, according to the highest estimates. British forces were not involved.
Colonel Chris Vernon, chief of staff for southern Afghanistan, said the Taliban leadership was coordinating its campaign from the western Pakistani city of Quetta, near the Afghan border. "The thinking piece of the Taliban is out of Quetta in Pakistan. It's the major headquarters," he told the Guardian. "They use it to run a series of networks in Afghanistan."

The Afghan president, Hamid Karzai, echoed these comments by accusing Pakistan of arming the insurgents. "Pakistani intelligence gives military training to people and then sends them to Afghanistan with logistics," the Pakistan-based Afghan Islamic Press news agency quoted him as saying.

Col Vernon said the Quetta leadership controlled "about 25" mid-level commanders dotted across the Afghan south, one of whom was captured last month. He declined to name him.

The unusually forthright British criticism, reflecting sentiments normally expressed in private by western commanders, drew a furious denial from the Pakistani military.

"It is absolutely absurd that someone is talking like this. If the Taliban leadership was in Quetta we would be out of our minds not to arrest them," said a spokesman, Major General Shaukat Sultan. "They should give us actionable intelligence so that we can take action."

The clash reflects growing tensions between Pakistan and the west as Nato prepares to assume command of southern Afghanistan from the US on July 31.
About 7,000 troops from Britain, Canada and the Netherlands are deploying to Helmand, Kandahar and Uruzgan provinces, while another 1,000 Americans and Romanians will be stationed in Zabul.

Kandahar has suffered the worst upheaval, much of it apparently aimed at unbalancing the Nato mission before it can settle down. Canadian troops have been pummelled with a string a suicide attacks, roadside bombs and an axe attack on an officer during a village meeting.

On Wednesday a suicide bomber rammed into a UN vehicle near the main coalition base at Kandahar airport, killing himself and injuring the driver. Col Vernon said he had tightened security on the road after similar attacks in March by "imposing Northern Ireland procedures". On Wednesday night hundreds of Taliban fighters assailed Musa Qala village in northern Helmand, sparking an eight-hour battle that officials said left 40 militants and 13 police dead.
Having convulsed the volatile south, the guerrilla summer offensive now threatens the rest of the country. Yesterday suicide bombers struck in the normally peaceful cities of Herat in the west and Ghazni to the north, killing an Afghan motorcyclist and a US police trainer.

"This is the worst things have been since the fall of the Taliban," said a western source in Kandahar.

Across the border, worried British and Canadian diplomats are pressing the Pakistani government to take a tougher approach to the Taliban. Although Pakistan forces have killed or arrested hundreds of al-Qaida suspects since 2001, it has detained only a handful of Taliban officials. The last big catch was spokesman Abdul Latif Hakimi, who was arrested in October 2005 after his mobile phone was traced to Quetta.

"Clearly the Taliban are at large in Baluchistan, operating in Quetta. Obviously that's a cause for concern," said a British diplomat in Islamabad. "There's no evidence of a serious network of Taliban camps but it's easy for them to take cover in Afghan refugee camps."

The 930-mile border, most of it barren mountains and desert, is notoriously porous. Maj Gen Sultan said that it was impossible for Pakistani officials to discriminate between ordinary Afghans and Taliban insurgents.

Col Vernon did not say whether Mullah Omar, the Taliban's leader, was also sheltering in Quetta. Relations between Afghanistan and Pakistan worsened sharply in March after Afghan allegations that Omar, Osama bin Laden and more than 100 Taliban leaders were hiding in Pakistan.

The Taliban fight has also become a propaganda war. The insurgents regularly paste "night letters" - threatening tracts against "collaborators" - on walls and doors in southern villages. A Taliban radio station has also started operating in Helmand, where the British troops are being deployed. Nato commanders are retaliating, pushing local media to publicise their successes. Domestic pressure means western journalists are also coming under scrutiny.

Asim Aquil · 05-19-2006, 10:11 AM

The british officer can kiss my bum. First try getting the one's outside of Kabul then complain about the ones on our side.

Ray · 05-19-2006, 11:34 AM

Hari,

If there is no Taliban and if there is no AQ, then there would be no interest of the US in Pakistan. If that happened, it would be a downslide for Pakistan to the days of yore.

The Benefits that Pakistan has accrued in terms of diplomacy, arms and money because of the war on Terror has been enumerated quite a few times on the forum. It has helped Pakistan immensely from the time it was about to be declared a failed and a rouge state.

If the ISAF countries feel that Pakistan is sheltering AQ, then I presume they would know best since they are affected as also they are on the scene. It appears that all affected are stating that Pakistan is colluding with the AQ and Taliban.

Bush also politely told Musharrf so. Obviously, Bush would know.

The fact that Pakistan Army is appearing impotent to handle the AQ and Taliban in NWFP is surprising since the Pakistani Army is not a rag tag army and instead are quite professional and capable. Therefore, their appearing to be lost babes in the wood does add to the credence of such statements from the ISAF.

platinum786 · 05-19-2006, 11:40 AM

these people don't know what's ahppening inside Kabul, jalalabad road is bombed weekly, they talk about Pakistan.....lol

Ray · 05-19-2006, 11:41 AM

Maybe the Colonel could throw some light!

Asim Aquil · 05-19-2006, 11:45 AM

I don't think Pak or the US has anything to gain with each other's cooperation anymore. They just help each other prolong their efforts as long they want to.

Pak can keep giving logistics but the US can't control Afghanistan.
US has already given what it wanted to, to Pakistan for the logistics and in exchange of the AQs.

Pak has no reason to prolong the US's stay in the region. Afterall as soon as the US leaves those Indian terror camps on the Afghani border would be easier to blow away.

platinum786 · 05-19-2006, 11:50 AM

lol, well said Asim...we have nothing to gain by isntability in either Afghanistan or Pakistan, it delays our plans for investment and gas pipelines...potentially jeoprdising them, i see otthers gaining advantage from this situation.

Karthik · 05-19-2006, 11:53 AM

Hari_Om,

Logistics or otherwise, a country that lends any kind of support to the Taliban is committing a blunder of monumental proportions.

Such a country will have to have a heavy price for supporting scumbags. The Americans didn't start the war in Afghanistan as a pastime.

This game of delusion cannot continue forever. There will soon come a time when the Americans are going to kick the butts out of anyone allowing the Taliban to operate from their soil.

A 'front line stalwart ally' or whatever crap such countries are called will be given their rightful status as rogue states, states that have plunged the world into the curse of terrorism.

Hari_Om · 05-19-2006, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

Pak has no reason to prolong the US's stay in the region. Afterall as soon as the US leaves those Indian terror camps on the Afghani border would be easier to blow away.

You would not be implying by any chance that the US armed forces are in the business of protecting “terror camps”, Indian or otherwise, are you?

platinum786 · 05-19-2006, 12:09 PM

indirectly yes

Ray · 05-19-2006, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karthik

Hari_Om,

Logistics or otherwise, a country that lends any kind of support to the Taliban is committing a blunder of monumental proportions.

Such a country will have to have a heavy price for supporting scumbags. The Americans didn't start the war in Afghanistan as a pastime.

This game of delusion cannot continue forever. There will soon come a time when the Americans are going to kick the butts out of anyone allowing the Taliban to operate from their soil.

A 'front line stalwart ally' or whatever crap such countries are called will be given their rightful status as rogue states, that have plunged the world into the curse of terrorism.

The support that Pakistan is giving is not coming free.

The US is paying big money for the same in a variety of ways. No one is doing US a favour. In fact, if one checks Pakistan's situation from the diplomatic, financial and military standpoint before 9/11, it will be realised that 9/11 was actually a boon for Pakistan.

Now that Pakistan is in the War on Terror, it is indeed interesting to hear that Pakistan has the option to call it a day. Paksitan actually has none. Should Pakistan even think of it, the US is capable of making Pakistan burn by assisting the various insurrections that are ongoing in Pakistan. What would be real painful to Pakistan if the US puts pressure of sanctions and UN on a variety of fields!

It would be very easy for the US to veer the international opinion against Pakistan, given the background of Paksitanis or Pakistani trained terrorists being masterminds/ involvement of most of the terror attacks around the world.

Paikistan survived barely the last time the sanctions were imposed because of Saudi Arabia. However, this time the Saudis have a bigger problem to bankroll the HAMAS govt. Therefore, the Saudi help may not be forthcoming and if it still does, it may not be that generous.

Karthik · 05-19-2006, 12:17 PM

So, in other words, this is the art of making business with the help of terrorism eh?

Using terror as an effective instrument of state policy to keep the coffers full of dollars.

Very innovative indeed. Far better than the IIMs or Wharton. One wonders if this ploy can continue any longer though.

How unbearably grotesque.

Ray · 05-19-2006, 12:17 PM

Platinum,

It would be real odd and most illogical that the US would assist any action that would go against their frontline ally Pakstian.

Hari_Om · 05-19-2006, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by platinum786

indirectly yes

Was that a responce to my post that said :

Quote:

You would not be implying by any chance that the US armed forces are in the business of protecting “terror camps”, Indian or otherwise, are you?

?

Asim Aquil · 05-19-2006, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hari_Om

You would not be implying by any chance that the US armed forces are in the business of protecting “terror camps”, Indian or otherwise, are you?

Lack of interest, and diplomatic immunity.

The two things Pakistanis themselves would look very differently as compared to the Americans...

The only people to gain from a US prolonged stay in Pakistan are the wretched Indian terror camp operatives.

05-19-2006, 11:34 AM	#3 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 28,397 Country:	Hari, If there is no Taliban and if there is no AQ, then there would be no interest of the US in Pakistan. If that happened, it would be a downslide for Pakistan to the days of yore. The Benefits that Pakistan has accrued in terms of diplomacy, arms and money because of the war on Terror has been enumerated quite a few times on the forum. It has helped Pakistan immensely from the time it was about to be declared a failed and a rouge state. If the ISAF countries feel that Pakistan is sheltering AQ, then I presume they would know best since they are affected as also they are on the scene. It appears that all affected are stating that Pakistan is colluding with the AQ and Taliban. Bush also politely told Musharrf so. Obviously, Bush would know. The fact that Pakistan Army is appearing impotent to handle the AQ and Taliban in NWFP is surprising since the Pakistani Army is not a rag tag army and instead are quite professional and capable. Therefore, their appearing to be lost babes in the wood does add to the credence of such statements from the ISAF. __________________ "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination." I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to. HAKUNA MATATA Last edited by Ray : 05-19-2006 at 11:40 AM.

05-19-2006, 11:53 AM	#8 (permalink)
Karthik Seeker of Rivendell *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 12-15-04 Posts: 1,569 Country:	Hari_Om, Logistics or otherwise, a country that lends any kind of support to the Taliban is committing a blunder of monumental proportions. Such a country will have to have a heavy price for supporting scumbags. The Americans didn't start the war in Afghanistan as a pastime. This game of delusion cannot continue forever. There will soon come a time when the Americans are going to kick the butts out of anyone allowing the Taliban to operate from their soil. A 'front line stalwart ally' or whatever crap such countries are called will be given their rightful status as rogue states, states that have plunged the world into the curse of terrorism. __________________ "There is no excellence in all this world that can be separated from right living." - David Star Jordan My Blog Last edited by Karthik : 05-19-2006 at 12:04 PM.

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05-19-2006, 10:11 AM	#2 (permalink)
Asim Aquil Banished *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 06-11-04 Location: Dubai Posts: 8,135 Country:	The british officer can kiss my bum. First try getting the one's outside of Kabul then complain about the ones on our side.

05-19-2006, 11:40 AM	#4 (permalink)
platinum786 Banished Join Date: 06-14-04 Posts: 1,986	these people don't know what's ahppening inside Kabul, jalalabad road is bombed weekly, they talk about Pakistan.....lol

05-19-2006, 11:41 AM	#5 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 28,397 Country:	Maybe the Colonel could throw some light!

05-19-2006, 11:45 AM	#6 (permalink)
Asim Aquil Banished *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 06-11-04 Location: Dubai Posts: 8,135 Country:	I don't think Pak or the US has anything to gain with each other's cooperation anymore. They just help each other prolong their efforts as long they want to. Pak can keep giving logistics but the US can't control Afghanistan. US has already given what it wanted to, to Pakistan for the logistics and in exchange of the AQs. Pak has no reason to prolong the US's stay in the region. Afterall as soon as the US leaves those Indian terror camps on the Afghani border would be easier to blow away.

05-19-2006, 11:50 AM	#7 (permalink)
platinum786 Banished Join Date: 06-14-04 Posts: 1,986	lol, well said Asim...we have nothing to gain by isntability in either Afghanistan or Pakistan, it delays our plans for investment and gas pipelines...potentially jeoprdising them, i see otthers gaining advantage from this situation.

05-19-2006, 12:09 PM	#10 (permalink)
platinum786 Banished Join Date: 06-14-04 Posts: 1,986	indirectly yes

05-19-2006, 12:17 PM	#12 (permalink)
Karthik Seeker of Rivendell *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 12-15-04 Posts: 1,569 Country:	So, in other words, this is the art of making business with the help of terrorism eh? Using terror as an effective instrument of state policy to keep the coffers full of dollars. Very innovative indeed. Far better than the IIMs or Wharton. One wonders if this ploy can continue any longer though. How unbearably grotesque.

05-19-2006, 12:17 PM	#13 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 28,397 Country:	Platinum, It would be real odd and most illogical that the US would assist any action that would go against their frontline ally Pakstian.

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