No one can stop Nawaz’s return, revival of democracy

Ray · 04-11-2006, 13:46 PM

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 E-Mail this article to a friend Printer Friendly Version

‘No one can stop Nawaz’s return, revival of democracy’

By Zakir Hassnain

PESHAWAR: Nobody can stop Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) chief Mian Nawaz Sharif from returning to Pakistan and restoration of democracy is the only way to pull the country out of the current crisis, PML-N leaders said on Monday.

Speaking at a press conference, PML-N Provincial Finance Secretary Sher Azam Khan, Information Secretary Arshid Qureshi and Jehanzeb Khattak demanded the immediate release of the party’s acting president Makhdoom Javed Hashmi and party leader Khawaja Saad Rafiq, along with all other political leaders who were detained without any reason. They said that President Pervez Musharraf would have to go and Nawaz Sharif would come back to Pakistan this year.

Sher Azam said that important decisions would be made in the next three to four weeks as prominent political leaders including Pakistan People’s Party Chairperson Benazir Bhutto, Mian Nawaz Sharif, the Awami National Party’s Asfandyar Wali and leaders of the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal were due to meet in London shortly.

Azam said that Nawaz would never strike any deal with the current rulers of Pakistan. “Nawaz would rather stay out of power than compromise,” he said. He said that the party’s central working committee would make a final decision about when Nawaz should return to Pakistan. Azam said that the provincial leadership had called a meeting of executive council and district presidents on April 18 and 19 to formulate the party’s future strategy on vital matters, including Nawaz’s return.

The PML-N provincial leaders demanded that the present government form an interim government, acceptable to all political parties and hold fair, free and transparent general elections supervised by an independent election commission.

The PML-N information secretary urged the government to end that military operation in the tribal areas and Balochistan and instead, find a political solution to the problem. He said that the country was passing through one of the darkest periods in its history and it was only due to the flawed policies of the current rulers, adding that the economy had taken a nose-dive, and with inflation and unemployment on the rise, life was becoming very difficult for the common man.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...-4-2006_pg7_22

The political campaign seems to have started in real earnest!

I wonder how NS will return to Pakistan this year.

Even if Musharraf is inclined to allow the leaders in exile or otherwise to return so that there appears to be a free and fair elections, the political lightweights of Musharraf's govt will jump out of the seat of their pants!

Irrespective of their 'crimes' both NS and BB are forces to reckon with and they have a way to grab the hearts of the electorate.

Musharraf may have done better for Pakistan, but his appearing to be a handmaiden of the US is something that common Pakistanis prefer to forget as a bad dream.

The last lambasting Bush gave, right on the soil of Pakistan, would surely not have taken well by the common Pakistani since it was quite an insult to be told that the US will ensure democracy as also that Paksitan should pull up her socks in so far as the war on terror.

I wonder how the whole show till emerge.

Lahori paa jee · 04-11-2006, 14:32 PM

NS wont come back

Ray · 04-11-2006, 15:46 PM

Lahori,

And why will NS not return to Pakistan?

Is life better in Saudi Arabia, eating dates and all that with the Saudi Bedouin "Kings" than the wonderful life of being the PM of Paksitan?

Surely Pakistan is not that bad. And even if it is, one's watan is much dearer to one than foreign lands.

Or is Arabia the land of his ancestors?

Or is the simple truth that he will be arrested and jailed in Pakistan for his crimes and he is very scared about that?

Zardari, Mr 10%, was not scared.

Lahori paa jee · 04-11-2006, 15:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

Lahori,

And why will NS not return to Pakistan?

Is life better in Saudi Arabia, eating dates and all that with the Saudi Bedouin "Kings" than the wonderful life of being the PM of Paksitan?

Surely Pakistan is not that bad. And even if it is, one's watan is much dearer to one than foreign lands.

Or is Arabia the land of his ancestors?

Or is the simple truth that he will be arrested and jailed in Pakistan for his crimes and he is very scared about that?

Zardari, Mr 10%, was not scared.

NS will return but his political career is over.

It was a wish of Mian Sharif ( NS's father ) and perhaps a wish of NS too to spend the last days of their lives in Saudi Arabia. Mian Sharifs wishes were fulfilled.

His politics depended pretty much on his father who as a genious and succeded in promoting his son to be PM. Things would be very different now.

Lahori paa jee · 04-11-2006, 16:00 PM

The Sharif behind the Sharifs

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The death of their father has deprived Mian Nawaz Sharif, Mian Shahbaz Sharif and rest of the family of their main Source of guidance. Octogenarian Mian Muhammad Sharif was a man who could see into the future far more clearly than his sons could despite their greater knowledge of worldly affairs and their sources of information.

A man of steel nerves, he had mastered the art of dealing with difficult situations and striking the iron while it was hot. He kept Mian Nawaz Sharif and Mian Shahbaz Sharif together even when the two had different opinions on various issues. He effectively thwarted all moves to drive a wedge between the two brothers when the younger one was being given seductive political offers.

Mian Shahbaz Sharif, family sources had told this reporter when the military establishment was in contact with him, was offered the post of prime minister as a replacement for his brother Nawaz Sharif. Mian Sharif vetoed the plan out of hand, telling Shahbaz that it was a conspiracy to tear them apart. He was also told by his far-sighted father that if the elder brother was not being tolerated, the younger could not expect a different treatment.

It is difficult to say how Shahbaz Sharif would have responded to the offer if the father had not intervened. What can be said without fear of contradiction is that the Sharifs outfoxed most of their political rivals because of the guidance available to them from their father.

The future would prove that even his decision to leave the country along with the rest of the family was the best in the given situation. He saved Mian Nawaz Sharif by preferring pragmatism over foolhardiness. Having overthrown Mr Sharif in October 1999, Gen Pervez Musharraf had said that Nawaz Sharif was his enemy No 1.

The former prime minister was facing a number of cases and his fate was at the mercy of the general. Although Mian Shahbaz was opposed to the idea of leaving the country, Mian Sharif was not willing to take any risks. It is because of the decision of their father that all sons and their families are safe - though in another country - and can think of a viable future for themselves.

It is hard to believe that Rafiq Tarar, handpicked by Mian Sharif, would have stayed on as president despite the overthrow of the PML government without the consent of his 'benefactor'.

He was allowed to remain head of state to prevent Gen Musharraf from taking any unpleasant decision against the prime minister he had toppled. After migrating to Pakistan from Jati Umra (India) well before partition, Mian Sharif had started a small steel business. He enjoyed the confidence of his six brothers.

Their business made rapid progress, thanks to their enviable unity. As a result of his hard work, the slim and smart Mian Sharif made the Ittefaq Group one of the biggest industrial empires of the country. Due to the guidance of his father - and support from generals Ziaul Haq and Ghulam Jilani Khan - Mian Nawaz Sharif reached the heights of politics in a shorter time than it has taken many others in the field.

Mian Sharif won the hearts of the bureaucrats holding important positions in the Sharif government. He treated many of them like his children because of which they became loyal supporters of Nawaz Sharif.

When the father of the prime minister or the chief minister treats his sons' aides like his own sons, they can't be expected to hatch conspiracies or go for backstabbing.

This way the father used to strengthen the hands of his sons. He had declared even Gen Musharraf as his fourth son. In the beginning relations between the Sharifs and Gen Musharraf were exemplary.

Mian Sharif once acknowledged that he advised his son on various important issues. For example, when Mr Nawaz Sharif was the prime minister during 1990-93, Mian Sharif said in an interview that he had asked him to improve relations with India. "I have told him to hold talks with Narasimha Rao (then Indian prime minister)", Mian Sharif was reported to have said in an interview. Mian Sharif set up the famous Ittefaq Hospital (Model Town), the Sharif Medical City and the Sharif Education Complex (Raiwind). The medical projects are equipped with the latest facilities.

Thousands of people are treated there every year. A few years before being banished to Saudi Arabia, the industrialist family also developed an interest in farming. As a result, over 360 acres of land were purchased at a place in Raiwind the family named Jati Umra after their ancestral village in India. It is where Mian Sharif will be buried.

Tronic · 04-11-2006, 16:05 PM

Nawaz Shariff won't come back to power.... so obvious, not while the Pakistani military has something to say about it. And the americans would rather see Musharaff at his seat where he is now. Even if the things DO go democratically (99.999% they won't), America will not allow their puppet to be replaced, even if it means fighting against democracy.

Lahori paa jee · 04-11-2006, 16:34 PM

The house that was and the house that is

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THE gate was wide open and I entered the house unhindered. Nobody asked me to prove my identity —- nor was there anyone around for the purpose. In fact, now anyone can go and even live there if he or she meets certain conditions.

As I looked around, I saw some elderly people basking in the sun in the spacious lawn. They were also exchanging pleasantries, some of them telling each other how the times had changed and even their loved ones had abandoned them.

Those who had enough of the sun, left the chairs behind and went into their rooms to rest. Everybody was moving around freely. An unbelievable scene for a man who had visited the place a few years ago!

The strangers can enter the place and even think of staying there because the owners were dispossessed of the huge place in Dec 2000. They have been living thousands of miles away in somebody else’s house for the last three years. They made some mistakes and are having to face the consequences. Nobody is in a position to predict how long their agony (cloaked in luxury) would last.

Those living here know nothing about the actual owners of the place, where they are now or in what conditions they are living.

They are also unaware of the fact that the owners of the house were once the most powerful people of the country. Their word was the law. The highest as well as the mightiest waited on their doors for hours to meet them. Some had to go back dejected after long and agonizing waits because owners of the house either did not have time or the will to meet them.

The place which has become so worthless now that even an ordinary mortal can visit it, is in the H-Block of the Model Town. It was once the Chief Minister’s house and then the Prime Minister’s House. Mian Nawaz Sharif and Mian Shahbaz Sharif lived here along with their families with plans to perpetuate themselves in power by serving the masses. Had the decision to dismiss Gen Pervez Musharraf as army chief not boomeranged, the Sharifs might have been the strongest ever rulers of the country even today.

I last saw the place on Dec 10, 2000, when the inmates were vacating it as they were proceeding on exile to Saudi Arabia under an agreement between the military government and the Saudi authorities. Servants were taking away everything, except the building itself.

Under provincial government’s control, the former prime minister’s residence has been converted into a ‘welfare home for the old and infirm people’. Some 40 men and women of over 50 years of age, abandoned by their relatives, live here. Another 10 can be accommodated if they approach the relevant authorities and follow the procedure.

The elderly people with no source of livelihood, or abandoned by their relatives, live here. They will stay here all their lives and leave the place only if some miracle takes any one of them back to his/her relatives.

A few days ago, I saw that the hall where Mr Sharif used to hold open courts to hear and redress people’s problems is now a TV lounge for the male inmates. A few broken sofa sets and some chairs were there for the viewers.

In this hall, Mr Sharif also held many party meetings.

Poetry recital competitions between a couple of known sycophants were also held here. They always read couplets that they claimed Allama Iqbal or some other poet had written keeping Mian Nawaz Sharif in mind. The former prime minister always gave them a free hand. Perched at two opposite corners, they would suddenly stand up when the proceedings of some meeting were in progress and start pleasing their boss with their poetry.

One of them is now with the PML-Q and the other is missing.

And the hall where Begum Kulsoom Nawaz used to meet women workers even after the ouster of the government, is now a TV lounge for women. The condition of the hall is as deplorable as it can be in the absence of its owners.

The room where the then chief minister Mian Shahbaz Sharif used to meet his visitors now serves as a bedroom for women. Cots are seen in what was once a computer room used by the secretarial staff of the former ruling family.

The upper storey of the front portion is now a hostel for men.

The rear portion of the building, which was once the residence of Mian Nawaz Sharif’s family, is being used by women. The offices on the left of the main entrance, where Mr Sharif used to receive important guests, are now being used by the staff looking after the inmates.

The glory of the building evaporated with the ouster of the Sharifs from power. From the present state of the building nobody can have even the vaguest idea that the place has been witness to many important decisions taken by the inmates to strengthen and prolong their rule or wipe out their political opponents.

The lawn where Begum Kulsoom Nawaz used to hold weekly meetings with party workers in an attempt to mobilize them against the Musharraf government, is now used by the old and the infirm to bask in the sun.

The country’s national flag still flutters on the outer boundary wall. But a parallel pipe meant for the party flag is like a tree denuded of its leaves. Perhaps, it will never again be crowned with a flag.

The residence of former chief minister Mian Shahbaz Sharif now houses a training centre for girls. Named as Sanat Zar, the institute imparts training in flower-making, makeup, needlework, dressmaking, pin work and some other arts. Every three months a new batch of students comes here for training.

Three years after banishment of the Sharifs, the political situation in the country has changed substantially. The Chaudhrys of Gujrat, who followed the Sharifs during the PML-N rule, are now in the first row. They are as close allies of Gen Musharraf as the Sharifs were Gen Ziaul Haq’s.

The recent meeting of Gen Pervez Musharraf with Chaudhry Shujaat Husain at the latter’s residence has further enhanced the importance of the family. The Chaudhrys’ close ties with Gen Musharraf might well diminish the already dim chances of Sharifs’ deal with the army.

Lahori paa jee · 04-11-2006, 16:40 PM

The Talking Pillars of Raiwind Will Never Speak Again

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Abbaji, the mysterious patriarch of the Sharif family, is an icon of sorts, in many roles and characters. He is a icon of political and financial opportunism for the military and civilian establishment; an icon of corruption, loot and plunder for the intelligentsia; an icon of strength, determination and defiance for the family; a religious icon or dervish as his daughter-in-law Kulsoom calls him; an icon of entrepreneurship, business skills and trading excellence for the bazaar.

Yet the 80-plus old steel nerved man, living an almost secluded life in this Raiwind Family Estate, perfectly alert with a razor sharp memory and busy in prayers and wazeefas most of his time, is a man with a strong political mission and a goal – to regain the kingdom that his family lost on October 12, 1999, to avenge the humiliation and torture caused by the Establishment he always worked with, and worked for, and to regain his financial and political prowess that he once enjoyed.

Mian Mohammed Sharif never meets journalists, except one or two Lahore-based Press barons, and shuns the media like an HIV virus, but surprisingly agreed to see me, not knowing that I never was a Sharif family fan and had never been close to either of his politician sons, whether in or out of power. Probably daughter-in-law Kulsoom Nawaz put in a good word for me as I had done a not-so-hard piece on her after meeting her in Murree late last month.

He also agreed on the condition that I meet him as a private citizen and not as a newsman, although when I introduced myself to him I only gave my journalistic background and credentials. Moreover, most of what he would say would not be attributable to him and would be off-the-record.

I agreed to all the conditions because for an independent-minded journalist, even meeting such a person who almost dictated history for more than one-and-a-half decades and was a key witness to the power play, intrigues and machinations of powerdom, would be a major news scoop. I also believed that private citizens also have the right to ask questions, and, in the interest of other private citizens, try and get the word out. After all, the lives of these very millions of private citizens have been held hostage to men like Abbaji for years — during which we saw him grow from an ordinary steel merchant to an industry owner, to a multi-dimensional tycoon, to a power broker, to a power manipulator, to a virtual master of the country’s destiny, dictating events of its troubled political history, for good or for bad.

When I arrived at the sprawling Raiwind Estate of the Sharifs at 10 am on Monday, August 7, 2000, I was in for some shocks and surprises. The Estate appears like a whole city in itself, with unending driveways, helipads, farms, playgrounds, pools, all surrounding the “Fortress Sharif” where Abbaji spends his days and nights.

A horde of armed and tough-looking men surround the car when you enter each of the many giant steel gates crossing one security zone into another. The mark of royalty is stamped all over the place and I am told that in the good old days there were beautifully decorated horse-driven carriages which would take guests from the main gate to the living quarters. The place looked to me like the ultimate dream of any oil rich Arab ruler or any billionaire American tycoon with a flair for rural life.

I had mixcd feelings about meeting the man who was now under tremendous pressure — his family business ruined, his sons and grandson in jail, his daughters and daughters-in-law forced to fight the army they had always relied upon, his own role in some matters under probe and the world having almost collapsed on his head.

How would this strong-willed, autocratic man, who always claimed to be the pioneer of every success in the Sharif family -- from setting up schools, hospitals and mosques, erecting the business and steel empire from scratch, expanding family trade to unknown frontiers and turning his sons into provincial and then national leaders -- be reacting to the sudden and devastating collapse of his economic and political fortunes.

I was somewhat angry at looking at the repulsive riches made obviously possible only through massive manipulation and misuse of political and financial authority that his sons had acquired. Had the playfield been even, some others could also have matched his skills and achievements. Or the Sharifs may not have done so well. After all, Pakistani business talent is not confined to just one family.

In typical General Zia-ul-Haq style, Abbaji tried to disarm me at the very first sight by waiting outside in the porch to receive me alongside Kulsoom, and later seeing me off right up to the car by closing the door himself. He gave me big hugs which immediately revealed to me that he was having some back problems as he was wearing a big waist belt under his long blue-striped shirt. I also heard someone say he was unable to say his prayers in the normal way and would do so on a chair, although this was not confirmed.

We sat down in the huge oval-shaped guest room which had sofas lined all along the walls and many pillars, also with striped fancy wall paper, rising in the middle. It was a huge hujra where it seemed Abbaji received all his guests. Kulsoom Nawaz, Saira, the young British-born and educated wife of incarcerated grandson Hussain Nawaz, also sat down with us, duly draped in a dupatta covering her head. Soon a little later, son-in-law Capt Safdar also joined in and so did a lawyer I could not recognize.

Then began a 90-minute session in which the walls and the pillars of the hujra heard details of many historically critical moments in Pakistan’s recent and not-so-recent history, related in one way or other to the Sharifs and the fortunes and failures of the family. In most of these events Abbaji had a definite role, but he would not come on record about any of these.

But, as they caution in folk tales, even walls can hear. And, so, I learnt in the Raiwind Estate of the Sharifs that, when desperately needed, pillars also can talk. Unlike the oft-repeated cliche “Himalayas would cry” in the momentous aura of that huge room where these pillars were witness to history being made around them, it was but natural that when Abbaji was silent, the pillars around him were talking, as they would not very often see a rare breed of visitors, a journalist.

For instance one of the pillars recalled a meeting not long ago when General Pervez Musharraf (then Army Chief) and his wife came and talked to Abbaji, complaining about his son Nawaz and discreetly suggesting that instead of him, younger son Shahbaz be given the country’s top elected slot. The suggestion was not immediately well received, but could have been seriously considered had events not rushed on and overtaken everybody.

The room we were sitting in had received almost every top general or C-in-C of the army, and most of the time these generals were either seeking Abbaji’s help to sort out matters with his son or discussing some crucial national or international matter, knowing fully well and realizing that it was this room from where real power and wisdom flowed.

These generals would call on him regularly in the midst of crises, and Abbaji would bring them together to patch up matters. But even the talking pillars did not like some of them, or their stiff necks, as one of them put it. For instance, one complaint was that the late General Asif Nawaz acted like a pharaoh. He would not salute Nawaz Sharif as Prime Minister. And to avoid that he would take off his military cap before he would face Nawaz. He wanted General Hameed Gul to be removed and Nawaz Sharif did not like the idea, but obliged him. Yet, he and his folks were unkind to the Sharif family and even in his death tried to pin the blame on the Sharifs, even to the extent of exhuming his body.

Then came General Waheed Kakar. He acted funny and got in league with (President) Ghulam Ishaq Khan. When Nawaz Sharif talked about repealing the 8th Amendment, G1K and Kakar got together and planned his exit. Abbaji got them all together and a pact was reached that Nawaz would not talk of the 8th Amendment any more. Yet one day Kakar told NS they had decided that they would dissolve the NA and nominate NS as interim prime minister to hold elections. The surprising thing was that Nawaz Sharif, in his sweet political naivety, agreed to the Kakar plan. But Abbaji put his foot down as it was a simple fraud being played on the family. Nawaz then called Kakar and told him this was not acceptable. Kakar said he had already informed the Corps Commanders and nothing could be done. So Nawaz went down and made his “no dictation” defiant speech before he was removed.

The pillars of Raiwind believe General Jehangir Karamat was a good man, but they are sure that his exit was not just because of the statement he made on the National Security Council issue, but it was something big and fishy in the back. Karamat, they believe, fell out with Nawaz on some gas business deal in the UAE and started trashing Nawaz who then got the opportunity when he spoke on the Security Council issue and kicked him in the back.

General Musharraf, the pillars reveal, was picked because he was Urdu-speaking and appeared to be non-partisan, something close to the ultimately tragic saga of ZA Bhutto and General Zia-ul-Haq. Musharraf opposed the policy to make peace with India and refused to salute Vajpayee when he came to Lahore That was a major crisis, but was overcome. The Raiwind pillars are full of praise for Vajpayee and say be had promised Nawaz Sharif that the Kashmir issue would be resolved “in eight months” after his bus arrived in Lahore. That was not to be as Vajpayee’s bus crashed in Kargil.

Vajpayee is remembered as a good and seasoned man, with a vision to resolve issues with Pakistan. He came to Minar-i-Pakistan and signed that he accepted Pakistan which was a reality. What else does anyone need to begin talking to him seriously on issues. But when he learnt of Kargil, he called Nawaz Sharif and asked why had he been stabbed in the back. Nawaz told him he did not know and would order an inquiry. The old Indian wizard said there was no need for an inquiry as he knew who was behind it. He then said my man Brijesh Mishra would come to Islamabad and meet Nawaz. The next day Mishra brought the secretly recorded rapes of General Musharraf and General Aziz on Kargil and told Nawaz who was behind Kargil.

Nawaz called a meeting of his services chiefs and asked them why Kargil had been done. The PAF chief said he did not know as, according to him, the PAF would not have preferred a long
air war. Nawaz asked then why did they start Kargil. Musharraf then said Nawaz should provide them political cover and Pakistan should withdraw from Kargil. In the national interest and to save the army from embarrassment, Nawaz Sharif went along with their plan and even went to the front lines and praised the men, the pillars say.

Then misunderstandings arose between Musharraf and Nawaz, and the pillars of Raiwind are a witness to a meeting in which Abbaji resolved the matter, assuring General Musharraf that he would not be fired and he was even given the concurrent charge of the Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee. Around that time Musharraf sent a message in London to Abbaji through Ambassador Qidwai of the Mehran Bank fame, that he wanted Shahbaz Sharif to take over as things with Nawaz were not working.

The breaking point came when Musharraf fired TP, or Tariq Pervez, the Corps Commander of Quetta, who was brother of a political colleague of Nawaz. Then it was decided that Musharraf would be fired and that he and Nawaz could not coexist.

The pillars tell another story of how General Musharraf was persuaded by Nawaz Sharif to proceed to Colombo although he had argued that his presence was not necessary because the Indian army chief was not coming and it would not be appropriate protocol-wise. Nawaz insisted and that made Musharraf suspicious. He talked to his folks in the GHQ before flying off. Everybody seemed to know that there was more to it than a mere visit to Colombo.

Abbaji shuts himself out when asked key questions about his role in these depressing times for the Sharif family. But he says one thing on record: “I believe in God, these difficult times will be over. I tell my family they should thank God that the coup was peaceful. It could have been dirty and even bloody. We could have been killed.”

Other than that he seems resigned to the fate and fortunes and believes strongly in God, and prays endlessly.

Those around him and the talking pillars, however, say he is a great fighter and now firmly believes the army has to be stopped from overthrowing elected governments again and again. The Sharifs are ready to work with all political forces, including Benazir Bhutto and Qazi Hussain Ahmed, to admit all their excesses and mistakes and to ensure that the power to overthrow is taken away from the army. Pakistan has lost its face many a time and it can afford no more of the same.

Finally, when I am about to take leave, I ask him whether he is under tension and whether he sleeps well. He says something which I don’t believe could be off-the-record: “I sleep peacefully and have no tensions. In life there are ups and downs and one has to face both and be prepared. We were very poor and we built ourselves. We will build ourselves again. One should have faith and “niyyat saaf honi chahiye.” His cool and resigned face does not betray his inner commotion and feelings. Abbaji is a cool cooky, as they say in the US.

The hold on family Abbaji has is evident from every move made or every word spoken by anyone in his presence. Kulsoom and Saira look at him in awe when he speaks. They listen to him in pin drop silence. Nobody questions his wisdom and everything he says is the last word.

Abbaji has brought the Sharif family from rags to riches and he is also responsible for its slide from the top of the political power hill to the bottomless pit that his sons and grandson find themselves in. But he is still considered the vital source of power and strength who will, through his prayers and wazeefas, as well as experience and foresight, bring this ordeal to an end.

The talking pillars do not forget to give the final message before I leave: “Everyone comes and goes. General Musharraf will not be there for ever. We will again have scent of power filling this room. We are here to stay. We are the pillars of strength, and steel.”

This is a very interesting interview and i love it so much. So beautifully expressed. Very close to my heart.

Ray · 04-11-2006, 17:59 PM

I feel sorry the way NS has been treated if the stories that you have posted are true.

How can one's ancestral home or private property be just taken over and converted to any old nonsense?

Is there no law regarding the safety of one's property in Pakistan?

It is a damned shame that the Sharifs have been forced to suffer the second eviction. once from India and again from the land they chose to live in1 Very heartless and Musharraf is a Mohajir himself!

Does he not understand the pains of Partition and exile?

Blademaster · 04-11-2006, 19:23 PM

Why should you have sympathy for NS? He got this land through outright highway robbery and thievery through corruption, graft, forced common working people to give labour under duress.

No, the family got what they deserved although it may not be in a manner of justice.

The elites has so much power that it was obtained through illegal means and a violation of human norms and decency.

Ray · 04-12-2006, 03:20 AM

If it is custom amongst the elite in Pakistan to get rich through illegal means, then why single out the Sharifs?

I have nothing against Pakistanis or Islam per se. My only cudgel is that it is time for ijtihad, which is allowed in Islam (read the thread on Ijtihad in the South Asia political forum).

Islam must blend into modern thinking and emerge from the cruel ways of the Middle Ages!

For instance, their code of remaining clean (even if majority of the Moslems in India do not practice the same) and their sex code makes very interesting reading and some of it is genuinely very good, especially in countries which are hot (weatherwise, that is)!

platinum786 · 04-12-2006, 04:27 AM

Nawaz is coming back.....lol, i'm more likley to get that seat than Nawaz Sharif, and in order for me to get it I have to wait for a 160 million idiots to die....lol

What everyone seems to forget is that the PML_N is now tiny, it's insignfiicant, his party has shattered into a huge number of pieces, the dosgs that used to support him now comfortly wit in governemnt more powerful than under Nawaz.

Benazir has a little more unity within her party, however her party has still been hit hard and has broken up and will remain so, because power corrupts, all these people that where insignficiant under Nawaz and benazir are top right right now and even if they do come back, they won't give them thier pie.

Another important factor is the mullah, his party is now actaully capable of winning votes, not as many as it did last election because as goverment they are truly sh!t, but more than enough to break the power base of Banazir and Nawaz in the two western states.

Karachi has also been taken out of thier hands, the MQM is allowed to work as a political party, and despite Altaf being abroad and remaining so, they win votes a lot of votes....votes these 2 would have usually got.

This leaves Punjab, this is now the play thing of Pervez Elahi and Shujaat Hussian...two people as big as and powerful as Nawaz and Benazir.

The final nail in the coffin, democracy. Musharraf has made local government important, district nazims have influence and are elected. A lot of educated people have been voted into these roles and a lot of old guard have lost votes.... a lot of votes. When ppl see what real people can acheive, what will drive them to bring the old corrupt idiots back in at any level?

Nawaz and benazir has support in the upper middle class....a fringe within society themselves, the people who's lives are not affected by gass upplies and clean drinking water in villages....becasue in thier suburb of Lahore they all have broadband too.

PML-Q have a voter base which is much wider.

They know the game is over, nobody is coming to anything.

Lahori paa jee · 04-12-2006, 05:26 AM

Quote:

becasue in thier suburb of Lahore they all have broadband too.

Hahaha. I like it. how do u know this?

Ray · 04-12-2006, 08:43 AM

Platinum,

Your post is quite disheartening.

It indicates that there is nothing like a political ideology amongst Pakistani politicians and instead it is all a question of grabbing power....the seat -kisse kursi ka!

Sad!

Ray · 04-13-2006, 15:05 PM

Quote:

Thursday, April 13, 2006 E-Mail this article to a friend Printer Friendly Version

Nawaz, Benazir, Altaf to attend ANP London moot

MARDAN: Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz leader Mian Nawaz Sharif, Pakistan People’s Party Chairperson Benazir Bhutto and Muttahida Quami Movement leader Altaf Hussain will attend the Awami National Party’s convention in London, ANP Organiser Alamgir Khan told reporters.

ANP leader Asfandyar Wali Khan will also leave for London on April 23 to address a party convention there. Sources said the ANP leader would also visit the United States to meet US State Department officials in Washington. Former HRCP chairperson Afrasiyab Khattak will accompany Khan to the US. A ceremony to commemorate the late Khan Abdul Wali Khan will also be held at a hotel there, said Khan. Online

The pot now boils.

Altaf joins the circus!

Next, we will hear that Musharraf too has joined them!

04-11-2006, 14:32 PM	#2 (permalink)
Lahori paa jee *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 07-26-05 Location: Lahore, Pakistan Posts: 855	NS wont come back __________________ Nisaar main teri galiyon pe aaye watan, ke jahan Chali hai rasm keh koi na sar utha keh chaley

04-11-2006, 16:05 PM	#6 (permalink)
Tronic Navajo Code Talker *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 12-27-04 Location: Patiala, India Posts: 5,287 Country:	Nawaz Shariff won't come back to power.... so obvious, not while the Pakistani military has something to say about it. And the americans would rather see Musharaff at his seat where he is now. Even if the things DO go democratically (99.999% they won't), America will not allow their puppet to be replaced, even if it means fighting against democracy. __________________ *Nabha Sparasham Deeptam* *-Touch The Sky With Glory*

04-11-2006, 17:59 PM	#9 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 26,136 Country:	I feel sorry the way NS has been treated if the stories that you have posted are true. How can one's ancestral home or private property be just taken over and converted to any old nonsense? Is there no law regarding the safety of one's property in Pakistan? It is a damned shame that the Sharifs have been forced to suffer the second eviction. once from India and again from the land they chose to live in1 Very heartless and Musharraf is a Mohajir himself! Does he not understand the pains of Partition and exile? Last edited by Ray : 04-11-2006 at 18:02 PM.

04-11-2006, 15:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 26,136 Country:	Lahori, And why will NS not return to Pakistan? Is life better in Saudi Arabia, eating dates and all that with the Saudi Bedouin "Kings" than the wonderful life of being the PM of Paksitan? Surely Pakistan is not that bad. And even if it is, one's watan is much dearer to one than foreign lands. Or is Arabia the land of his ancestors? Or is the simple truth that he will be arrested and jailed in Pakistan for his crimes and he is very scared about that? Zardari, Mr 10%, was not scared.

04-11-2006, 19:23 PM	#10 (permalink)
Blademaster Military Enthusiast *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-15-03 Posts: 3,050	Why should you have sympathy for NS? He got this land through outright highway robbery and thievery through corruption, graft, forced common working people to give labour under duress. No, the family got what they deserved although it may not be in a manner of justice. The elites has so much power that it was obtained through illegal means and a violation of human norms and decency.

04-12-2006, 03:20 AM	#11 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 26,136 Country:	If it is custom amongst the elite in Pakistan to get rich through illegal means, then why single out the Sharifs? I have nothing against Pakistanis or Islam per se. My only cudgel is that it is time for ijtihad, which is allowed in Islam (read the thread on Ijtihad in the South Asia political forum). Islam must blend into modern thinking and emerge from the cruel ways of the Middle Ages! For instance, their code of remaining clean (even if majority of the Moslems in India do not practice the same) and their sex code makes very interesting reading and some of it is genuinely very good, especially in countries which are hot (weatherwise, that is)!

04-12-2006, 04:27 AM	#12 (permalink)
platinum786 Banished Join Date: 06-14-04 Posts: 1,986	Nawaz is coming back.....lol, i'm more likley to get that seat than Nawaz Sharif, and in order for me to get it I have to wait for a 160 million idiots to die....lol What everyone seems to forget is that the PML_N is now tiny, it's insignfiicant, his party has shattered into a huge number of pieces, the dosgs that used to support him now comfortly wit in governemnt more powerful than under Nawaz. Benazir has a little more unity within her party, however her party has still been hit hard and has broken up and will remain so, because power corrupts, all these people that where insignficiant under Nawaz and benazir are top right right now and even if they do come back, they won't give them thier pie. Another important factor is the mullah, his party is now actaully capable of winning votes, not as many as it did last election because as goverment they are truly sh!t, but more than enough to break the power base of Banazir and Nawaz in the two western states. Karachi has also been taken out of thier hands, the MQM is allowed to work as a political party, and despite Altaf being abroad and remaining so, they win votes a lot of votes....votes these 2 would have usually got. This leaves Punjab, this is now the play thing of Pervez Elahi and Shujaat Hussian...two people as big as and powerful as Nawaz and Benazir. The final nail in the coffin, democracy. Musharraf has made local government important, district nazims have influence and are elected. A lot of educated people have been voted into these roles and a lot of old guard have lost votes.... a lot of votes. When ppl see what real people can acheive, what will drive them to bring the old corrupt idiots back in at any level? Nawaz and benazir has support in the upper middle class....a fringe within society themselves, the people who's lives are not affected by gass upplies and clean drinking water in villages....becasue in thier suburb of Lahore they all have broadband too. PML-Q have a voter base which is much wider. They know the game is over, nobody is coming to anything.

04-12-2006, 08:43 AM	#14 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 26,136 Country:	Platinum, Your post is quite disheartening. It indicates that there is nothing like a political ideology amongst Pakistani politicians and instead it is all a question of grabbing power....the seat -kisse kursi ka! Sad!