Amled

There have been a number of articles in the media over here regarding the controversy over Hans Island; a desolate island to the northwest of Greenland.

It seems that Danish patrol ships regularly call on the island, make landfalll and plant a Danish flag, and then leaves. later a Canadian patrol comes along and hoist the Canadian flag.
And so it has gone on for quote a while now.

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When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin

Canmoore

I know that America has a policy where anything 12km from the mainland is considered International waters, and they do not recognize claims of soverignty on islands outside the 12k zone.

For that reason the Americans can take subs into Hudson and James bay, as well as the Arctic archapelago. And also under that policy, PEI does not belong to Canada!

I surely believe that ALL land within Canada's borders belongs to Canada. I am glad that Harper wants to assert soverignty over the arctic, and put a new military base on Baffin Island, and ice breakers to patrol the NW passage.

However i fear that this may never become real, unless Harper gets a Majority government, and all the hippies in the Cities could prevent this from happening.

Officer of Engineers

No, they can't. Let's be real for a second.

There's something called a government in PEI for crying out loud.

A CF station is MORE than enough. The ONLY reason why there are CF personnel there is because we're ORDERED to be there. You want to see how fast we can dog sled out of there?

Who's going to see the Ice Breaker?

It's not going to be real because we have far more pressing needs ... like tactical airlift and strategic sealift.

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Chimo

Canmoore

No, they can't. Let's be real for a second.

I was just using that as an example



There's something called a government in PEI for crying out loud.

of course, i was just being sarcastic.


Who's going to see the Ice Breaker?

arctic foxes, seals perhaps, maybe a whale. It may seem useless now, but 20-50 years down the raod, when the ice-pack starts to melt earlier and the NW passage becomes a more desireable route, they will be better than nothing in deturing anyone we dont want from entering our waters.



It's not going to be real because we have far more pressing needs ... like tactical airlift and strategic sealift.

yes, and i agree. Arctic defence is more of a long term issue, than an immediate one.

Officer of Engineers

Then, you don't need an Ice Breaker, do you? The ONLY people "violating" our sea lanes are the Americans and the Brits and we know all about them. They have to enter and exit through Canadian patrolled waters. They ALWAYS let us know when they're in the area so we don't start shooting each other.

Other than that, no one is exploiting the north like we are. And no one uses subs to raise a flag. That's contrary to a sub's mission - to stay hidden.

Canmoore

So what is your stance on America not recognizing our claim to the Arctic? Do you believe that Canada should at least do something, even if it is just symbolic, to show the world, that the arctic is ours?

Officer of Engineers

Do what? They're not going to admit that they're violating our waters; at least not with subs and ice breakers ain't going to catch subs. They're not spending money up there. We are.

You want to plant a flag? Send 3rd Rangers. Snowmobiles cost a hell of alot less than an icebreaker and just as effective. You want to patrol? Send an AURORA, it covers the territory in a 10th of the time.

lemontree

Cricket, play some cricket there or ice hockey if thats what you like.

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Cheers!...on the rocks!!

Officer of Engineers

Polar bears would just love to use cricket bats or hockey sticks as tooth picks.

Blademaster

By the way, are polar bears endangered species, never mind your joke about you being endangered?

Officer of Engineers

No, not endangered but threatened.

Canmoore

ROFL

lemontree

Wait till India and Pakistan play there - even the polar bears will get hooked to the game.

canoe

We can patrol it I suppose to at least give the impression we care, maybe even try to pursue legal recognition for all the good it will do us. Realisticlly it all depends how serious we want make this.

It comes down to this, Canada does not have the military capacity to enforce its soveignty over the arctic waters at this time. There is basiclly nothing we can do to stop anyone from going through. In theory our plan if hostile forces entered into the arctic pass would be to call the Amercians for help.

Hope that gives you an idea of what little we're capable of doing.

Canmoore

I know what little capabilty we have, and Harper wants to change that. However the problem is not the lack of will to keep the north Canadian, the challenge is to break the sence of indifference among Urban Canadians.

For example, during the AID's conference this summer in Toronto, the Liberal, Bloc, and NDP blasted Harper for not attending the conference. And the media just added fuel to the fire.
But the question that SHOULD have been raised by the media, was this. What is more important? attending a conference that isnt going to solve the AID's problem, or making a trip to the arctic to claim soverignty and re-instate his plans for the Arctic.

what is more important?

Had Harper of attended that conference, would AID's have magically disapeared? would a cure be suddenly conjured up? what good would that have done? All that conference was, was a bunch of scientists, people with AID's, and politicians talking about AID's, there was no tangible work being done to correct AID's, there was no new vaccines being looked at or talked about, it was just a giant sit in and kumbaya for hippies and lefties.

And meanwhile, Harper was DOING something tangible. He was in the North, asserting our claim on the north.

Is protecting ones own country not more important than a giant multi-day multi-million dollar converstaion about AID's?


THAT my friend is the real danger to the north, Canada CAN protect and defend the country, that is not the problem, the problem is educating the largely ignorant or just plain ill-informed Canadian public on the importance of protecting ones own country.