How to Stop Wars

JAD_333 · 08-29-2007, 23:34 PM

Stumbled on this looking for something on war. I first ran into it maybe 25 years ago. It's from a conversation that took place in 1914 in Moscow between a Russian journalist/mathematician named Peter Ouspensky and a man named George Gurdjieff, also a Russian and later a teacher of some repute. Ouspensky had a photographic memory--you had to in those days to be a good journalist--and wrote it down word for word. Reading about cosmic influences I couldn't help but think of global warming. Anyway, the ideas are certainly different, and there's some humor in them.

Quote:

"'There was a question about War. How to stop wars? Wars cannot be stopped. War is the result of the slavery in which men live. Strctly speaking, men are not to blame for war. War is due to cosmic forces, to planetary influences. But in men there is no resistance whatever against these influences, and there cannot be any, because men are slaves. If they were Men and were capable of 'doing'(had Will), they would be able to resist these influences and refrain from killing one another.' 'But surely those who realize this can do something?'said the man who asked the question about war. 'If a sufficient number of men came to a definite conclusion that there should be no war, could they not influence others?'

'Those who dislike war have been trying to do so almost since the creation of the world' said G. 'And yet there has never been such a war as the present(the First World War). Wars are not decreasing, they are increasing and war cannot be stopped by ordinary means. All these theories about universal peace, about peace conferences, and so on, are again simply laziness and hypocrisy. Men do not want to think about themselves, do not want to work on themselves, but think of how to make other people do what they want. If a sufficient number of people who wanted to stop war really did gather together they would first of all begin by making war upon those who disagreed with them. And it is still more certain that they would make war on people who also want to stop wars but in another way. And so they would fight. Men are what they are and they cannot be different. War has many causes that are unknown to us. Some causes are in men themselves, others are outside them. One must begin with the causes that are in man himself. How he can be independent of the external influences of great cosmic forces when he is a slave of everything that surrounds him? He is controlled by everything around him. If he becomes free from things, he may then become free from planetary influences.

(...) Let us take some event in the life of humanity. For instance; war. There is a war going on at the present moment(WWI). What does it signify? It signifies that several million of sleeping people are trying to destroy several million of other sleeping people. They would not do this, of course, if they were to wake up.

(...) How many times have I been asked whether wars can be stopped? Certainly they can. For this it is only necessary that people should awaken. It seems a small thing. It is, however, the most difficult thing there can be because this sleep is induced and maintained by the whole of surrounding life, by all surrounding conditions.

tankie · 08-31-2007, 07:01 AM

Best if people dont start them in the 1st place ,,, sigh , that will never happen though

crooks · 08-31-2007, 10:55 AM

We're human, warfare is built in the psyche.

tankie · 09-01-2007, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crooks

We're human, warfare is built in the psyche.

Thats true Crooks , also of just about every animal on the planet , as warfare is mainly to occupy and control , which is what most animals do , fighting for there own space and to take over others territory , including some species of fish which are territorial

洲际导弹 · 12-22-2007, 04:35 AM

Americans provoked War.

tankie · 12-22-2007, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 洲际导弹

War is not provoked by the Americans?

RustyBattleship · 12-22-2007, 15:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 洲际导弹

Americans provoked War.

And Ghengis Khan was a benevolent Shintu Priest?

tankie · 12-24-2007, 00:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustyBattleship

And Ghengis Khan was a benevolent Shintu Priest?

Aw c,mon R/B ,,, you know thats a fib , he was a Buddhist monk by all accounts

Bluesman · 12-24-2007, 00:43 AM

The best way to stop a war before it starts is to be absolutely and unquestionably superior to your potential enemies, in any way in which those enemies may choose to fight you. Conventionally or not, if there is simply no chance for them to calculate that they could win any war they start, the war won't BE started.

Once a war has started, the ONLY two ways to stop it is to win it, or to lose it. Losing it has the advantage of being quicker. Winning it has every other advantage but that one.

FibrillatorD · 12-24-2007, 01:23 AM

Its all too convenient to say war is built into the human psyche. It justifies being an ass to people.

omon · 12-24-2007, 11:48 AM

if one watches a movie, "ali g in da house", you'll see, he found a very good way to ease tensions at un meeting

08-31-2007, 07:01 AM	#2 (permalink)
tankie tankie *Military Professional* Join Date: 11-22-06 Location: u/k Posts: 2,044 Country:	Best if people dont start them in the 1st place ,,, sigh , that will never happen though __________________ TANKIE , WITHOUT WAX

08-31-2007, 10:55 AM	#3 (permalink)
crooks Green, White 'n Orange *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 10-17-06 Location: Blarney, County Cork, Ireland Posts: 1,291 Country:	We're human, warfare is built in the psyche. __________________ 'Liberty - it is newly strung and shall be heard.' - Motto of the United Irishmen.

12-22-2007, 04:35 AM	#5 (permalink)
洲际导弹 New Member Join Date: 06-06-06 Location: CHINA Posts: 6	Americans provoked War. Last edited by 洲际导弹 : 12-22-2007 at 04:46 AM.

12-24-2007, 00:43 AM	#9 (permalink)
Bluesman WAB Bartender *Defense Professional* *Military Professional* Join Date: 11-24-04 Location: Vacaville, CA. Posts: 7,387 Country:	The best way to stop a war before it starts is to be absolutely and unquestionably superior to your potential enemies, in any way in which those enemies may choose to fight you. Conventionally or not, if there is simply no chance for them to calculate that they could win any war they start, the war won't BE started. Once a war has started, the ONLY two ways to stop it is to win it, or to lose it. Losing it has the advantage of being quicker. Winning it has every other advantage but that one. __________________ "The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory." - George Orwell Last edited by Bluesman : 12-24-2007 at 02:17 AM.

12-24-2007, 11:48 AM	#11 (permalink)
omon Field mechanik *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-01-06 Location: bk Posts: 1,925 Country:	if one watches a movie, "ali g in da house", you'll see, he found a very good way to ease tensions at un meeting __________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

12-24-2007, 01:23 AM	#10 (permalink)
FibrillatorD *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 03-11-07 Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota Posts: 800 Country:	Its all too convenient to say war is built into the human psyche. It justifies being an ass to people.

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