Thread: Good questions, man.

Originally Posted by Bluesman

FINALLY, the LA Times seems to have 'gotten it'. They published an editorial that is spot-on.

I bet someone gets fired over it.

Originally Posted by Confed999

I bet someone gets fired over it.

Probably. 'Pravda on the Pacific' isn't especially tolerant. Remember the stories coming from them when Gray Davis was recalled? They did everything in their power - including lie - to defeat the effort, and when it came to light HOW certain inside info came into the light...the whistleblower did, indeed, get fired.

I am listening to Prager discuss his article on his radio show right this very minute.

-dale

Take notes, and post a wrap-up!

According to Freedom House, a Washington-based group that promotes democracy, of the world's 47 Muslim countries, only Mali is free. Sixty percent are not free, and 38% are partly free. Muslim-majority states account for a majority of the world's "not free" states. And of the 10 "worst of the worst," seven are Islamic states. Why is this?

What on earth is "partly" free...

If Israeli occupation is the reason for Muslim terror in Israel, why do no Christian Palestinians engage in terror? They are just as nationalistic and just as occupied as Muslim Palestinians.

The PLO had plenty of Christians.

We see torture and murder in the name of Allah, but we see no anti-torture and anti-murder demonstrations in the name of Allah.

Last week's protests in Jordan against the bombings, while welcome, were a rarity.

...

Young girls in Indonesia were recently beheaded by Muslim murderers. Last year, Muslims — in the name of Islam — murdered hundreds of schoolchildren in Russia. While reciting Muslim prayers, Islamic terrorists take foreigners working to make Iraq free and slaughter them. Muslim daughters are murdered by their own families in the thousands in "honor killings." And the Muslim government in Iran has publicly called for the extermination of Israel.

The answer is always: "These people claim to be Muslims but they don't speak or act for the rest of us."

My rebuttle is: Whether or not these savages are speaking or acting for you, they seem to be the ONLY ones that are doing the speaking or acting.

What else are we supposed to think??

Originally Posted by Confed999

I bet someone gets fired over it.

Of course they will. The liberal West Coast won't stand for such "intolerance".

I think the article asks some very valid questions. I cant wait to see some of these answers.

the article is an interesting read, but there are several problems i have with it. to get a better insight into "what exactly is wrong with the islamic world today," i highly suggest "the trouble with islam", by irshad manji. excellent read.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...46458?v=glance

but regarding the article itself,

THE RIOTING IN France by primarily Muslim youths and the hotel bombings in Jordan are the latest events to prompt sincere questions that law-abiding Muslims need to answer for Islam's sake, as well as for the sake of worried non-Muslims.

people have a tendency to over-generalize. for example, i think it's pretty clear by now that the rioting in france has very little to do with all this talk of "islam rising" in europe and more to do with disenfranchised and disillusioned youths frozen out of stagnant-france.

(1) Why are you so quiet?

well, he answers the question himself later on: many muslims live in societies where freedom of speech is not highly approved of. and also, the growing spread of fanatic islam- wahhabism, supported by our "ally" the saudis through oil money- makes these demonstrations all the more rare.

(2) Why are none of the Palestinian terrorists Christian?

actually, some number have. but to put it simply, the reason why they are such a small minority is because christians are a minority in the palestinian regions to begin with. this effect is amplified due to the growing religious islamic extremism aspect of the terrorism there.

(3) Why is only one of the 47 Muslim-majority countries a free country?

this has more to do with the failed domestic and foreign policies of their elite during the cold war (they backed the wrong side, plus they weren't very adept domestically) than with the idea of islam in general. by the way, the author discounts turkey.

(4) Why are so many atrocities committed and threatened by Muslims in the name of Islam?

(5) Why do countries governed by religious Muslims persecute other religions?

again, wahhabism, corruption, and the "islam race" started by the ayatollahs of iran vs the clerics in saudi arabia.
----

one of the largest problems with islam today is that it has been largely hijacked by extremist forces, both the shi'ites and the sunnis. these extremists are well-funded due to oil, allowing them to easily spread their message among disillusioned peoples that lie prostrate due to their autocratic masters. the money, too, allows them to buy themselves a voice that is far larger than it truly is. with a combination of these factors, it is no surprise that people all over the world increasingly associate islam with extremism, fanaticism, and terror.

the sad thing is, if the islamic community does not reform and throw out these extremists, there is a deadly chance that this over-simplified view might just indeed turn into reality.

Those are excactly the questions that needed to be asked. The answers to those questions will lead future course of actions either against or for muslims in the years to come. Not answering those questions is not an option.

Thye will raise their voices only and only when their asses get the beating.

I got an interesting reply to my query on the similar lines in Israel Forum.

It stated that the terrorists has Islamic names but were not Moslems since they did not practice Islam as their acts were un- Islamic!

(1) Why are you so quiet?

Pious Muslims beleive that men are individually accountable to God; rebuke by mortals would amount to nothing more than a profession of faithlessness.

Too, it is a grave matter for a pious Muslim to accuse another Muslim of being a heretic or apostate as it goes against the whole concept of the Umma and the dictates of the Prophet himself.

(2) Why are none of the Palestinian terrorists Christian?

Careful what you wish for; the Lord acts in mysterious ways

Since the issue of Palestinian independence is a political rather than religious issue, the religion of the bombers probably is not that important in the scheme of things. Too, given the demography of the region, it is statistically most probably that you are going to get a Muslim bomber and a young male at that.

(3) Why is only one of the 47 Muslim-majority countries a free country?

Muslims have a long standing tradtion (I forget the exact name and origin OTTOMH) of valuing social order over disorder. The general gist of it is that bad government is better than no government at all.

As an aside on this issue, Western powers have traditionally worked very hard to keep dictators in power in many Muslim countries; I wonder if this has anything to do with it?

(4) Why are so many atrocities committed and threatened by Muslims in the name of Islam?

This is kind of a strawman; when we look at the actors perpetrating the violence, much of it is good old fashioned factional or nationalist violence and is political in motivation and execution.

Claiming responsibility in the name of Islam is part of the terrorists propaganda effort. If Mr. Praeger or anybody else chooses to be swayed by terrorist propaganda, that is his problem.

(5) Why do countries governed by religious Muslims persecute other religions?

They might be considered to be apostate regimes.

By Koran and Hadith, Muslims have very specific guidelines regarding the treatment of other religions. Dhimmi, in theorey, should not have it too bad under a Muslim regime (but woe be unto the idolaters!). In practice, however, when less than pious Muslims gain power, they tend not follow the dictates of Islam too closely, just as when those who claim to be devout Christians have a tendancy to forget Christian teachings when they gain power.

When looking into claims of religious persecution, we often find that there are other social, political and economic reasons for persecution. This is not to say that religious persecution is not happening in some places in the Muslim world, just do not dismiss the relevant facts in your quest for a conclusion.

Sudan's Islamic regime has murdered great numbers of Christians.

Some relevant facts have been discarded in the quest for this conclusion.

I would find it very interesting if some of the top Muslim leaders would answer these questions. Invariably, they would shift the blame to somebody else and never admit that their religion is somewhat confused and undeniably violent.

Originally Posted by leibstandarte10

I would find it very interesting if some of the top Muslim leaders would answer these questions. Invariably, they would shift the blame to somebody else and never admit that their religion is somewhat confused and undeniably violent.

It would be real nice to hear them preach understanding other then hatred like some do.
But either way I do agree they dont do enought to stem the violence and hate.