Thread: US's June 30 Pull Out

Originally Posted by JAD_333

In a way this a victory for the US because it gives hope that Iraqis by and large are prepared to accept the existing government. It's not a good omen for US troops based outside the cities who may begin to experience sustained mortar attacks and whatnot. If we marched to the airport unarmed and left in a purple spaceship, the insurgents would claim they chased us out. Would the average Iraqi buy that? Probably not.

Maybe the urban elites wouldn't buy that but the poor probably will. If the Americans are there one day and gone the next and the replacement is not a strong Iraqi Government force then they would obviously believe that the US was chased out. Especially when thats the news they are getting from their friendly neighbourhood militia.

Dont forget that a lot of the Muslim world places very little emphasis on our "Kufr" media, choosing rather to believe their own groups even if the information is a little on the skewed side so it will be hard to convince them that it truly is an American victory (something i myself have trouble accepting 100%).

People used to ask what 'victory in Iraq' would look like. Well, THIS is a huge part of it.

Ah, but you'll never hear the anti-war types admit that they were wrong.

Originally Posted by Bluesman

People used to ask what 'victory in Iraq' would look like. Well, THIS is a huge part of it.

Ah, but you'll never hear the anti-war types admit that they were wrong.

At the moment we're not hearing the anti-war types say a damn thing...guess they're too busy mourning Michael Jackson at some "vigil" or other.

Originally Posted by chakos

Maybe the urban elites wouldn't buy that but the poor probably will. If the Americans are there one day and gone the next and the replacement is not a strong Iraqi Government force then they would obviously believe that the US was chased out. Especially when thats the news they are getting from their friendly neighbourhood militia.

I was speaking of the "average" Iraqi, not the poor. No doubt all self-respecting Iraqis will be happy when they are once again in control of their own country. That's natural to any patriot. In the long run history will show that the US mission of regime change succeeded.

Dont forget that a lot of the Muslim world places very little emphasis on our "Kufr" media, choosing rather to believe their own groups even if the information is a little on the skewed side so it will be hard to convince them that it truly is an American victory (something i myself have trouble accepting 100%).

The mission defines the victory. Apart from all the strategic reasons, the WMD pretext, the early occupation mistakes, and tactical mistakes the US went into Iraq to effect regime change and install an elected government. Mission accomplished.

But the less than 100% has to do with calculations that hostile countries in the region would moderate their behavior with US forces on their doorstep. Iran and Syria would be cowed into ending their support of Islamic militant groups, Iran would become more willing to negotiate an end to its nuclear programs, and so on. It didn't happen as envisioned.

Not all of it (although it COULD have, if the country hadn't been pulled apart and its unity all but destroyed by a feckless and mendacious power-seeking political party whose anti-Americanism is but barely disguised).

But a great deal of good came from it in the end. Our strategic position is very much enhanced from the status quo ante.

Originally Posted by Bluesman

Not all of it (although it COULD have, if the country hadn't been pulled apart and its unity all but destroyed by a feckless and mendacious power-seeking political party whose anti-Americanism is but barely disguised).

Their antics made it come later rather than sooner which raised the cost. But they got what they were really after, the presidency. Whether they got it on account of their actions or in spite of it remains to be seen.

But a great deal of good came from it in the end. Our strategic position is very much enhanced from the status quo ante.

I tend to agree with you. I don't know if you're thinking, among other things, of the recently unthinkable fact that the Pak army has moved up to the border with Helmand Province to close off Taliban escape routes.

I'd be interested in what you mean by "very much enhanced."

in my view, it's not very enhanced right now-- but IF things go well, it will be in two-three years' time. a stabilized iraq or afghanistan, while not exactly the best of allies, will at a minimum allow us to free up a good deal of combat power, which means a better deterrent against iranian games.

As we know, the US troops pull out is only from towns and cities. This tape below is reported to be by Baghdadi who has been reported by Iraq to be captured.

Iraq group calls for further attacks on US troops

BAGHDAD, July 8 (Reuters) - An insurgent group linked to al-Qaeda of Iraq urged militants to continue attacks against U.S. forces even after combat troops were pulled from city centres, according to an audiotape released on Wednesday.

"Even if the Americans remain nowhere but a small spot in the Iraqi desert ... so every Muslim should battle them until they are expelled," the voice, reported to be Abu Omar al-Baghdadi, head of the so-called Islamic State of Iraq, said in the recording posted on a website used by jihadists.

The Iraqi government heralded the capture this spring of a man they identified as Baghdadi, just as an uptick in major attacks raised troubling questions about whether Iraq would be able to maintain a sharp decline in the violence unleashed by the U.S.-led invasion in 2003.

It was not the first time Iraqi officials had announced the capture of someone identified as Baghdadi, and the Sunni Arab insurgent group has since denied his arrest.

The Islamic State of Iraq is believed to be affiliated with al Qaeda's main organisation in Iraq, led by Abu Ayyub al-Masri, also known as Abu Hamza al-Muhajir.

The tape comes a week after the United States pulled combat troops from bases within Iraqi cities and towns, part of a plan to halt combat operations in August 2010 and withdraw all American forces by the end of 2011.

But militant attacks continue, especially in Baghdad and parts of northern Iraq, underscoring doubts about whether local forces will be able to impose order on their own.

The speaker called on Sunni Arab militiamen, who helped drive al Qaeda out of most of Iraq after they began collaborating with American forces in 2006, to rejoin the insurgency and battle Iraq's Shi'ite-led government. ....