Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 69

Thread: Iraq Plans To Buy 2,000 T-72s

  1. #1
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
    Join Date
    02 Aug 03
    Location
    Arlington, Virginia
    Posts
    10,132

    Iraq Plans To Buy 2,000 T-72s

    Iraq Plans To Buy 2,000 Tanks
    U.S. Firm Would Rebuild East European T-72s

    By Kris Osborn
    Published: 12 January 2009

    The Iraqi Army is planning to buy up to 2,000 retrofitted, Soviet-era T-72 tanks, U.S. defense companies and Pentagon officials said.

    Redesignated as T-91s, the tanks would form the heavy core of a reconstituted force meant to be able to defend its country after most U.S. forces leave in 2011.

    The tanks would be bought from Eastern European countries such as the Czech Republic, Poland, Ukraine and Slovakia, and then stripped to their frames and rebuilt under a contract managed by Defense Solutions of Exton, Pa.

    "We take the vehicle all the way down to bare metal and back up to a fully modernized vehicle" that can fight at night, said retired U.S. Army Col. Tim Ringgold, the firm's CEO. "We add digital displays, thermal sights and radios along with a laser rangefinder and a laser detector, so that a tank knows if it is being targeted."

    Ringgold said he expects Iraqi officials to sign a contract with his firm to deliver 2,000 tanks in coming weeks.

    A U.S. Army official in Iraq who is involved with weapons sales said the deal is likely to go through. The Iraqi Army, which currently owns 149 tanks, wants to buy at least 2,000 more in the next several years, likely including large numbers of T-72s, the official said.

    A Washington-based spokesman for the Iraqi Ministry of Defense declined to comment on the proposed deal, but said the Iraqi Army is enthusiastic about continuing to build its force with new equipment.

    The work would begin in February, with deliveries to begin several months later, Ringgold said. Iraq will pay Defense Solutions about $3 million per tank, he said. Subcontractors include DynCorp International, Falls Church, Va.; L-3 Communications, New York; and Omega Training Group, which will perform maintenance on the tanks in Iraq and train Iraqi troops to operate and repair them.

    A U.S. Department of Defense spokeswoman said the potential deal would be handled by the DoD's Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program.

    "The process would be that Iraqi government officials would work with the multinational security and training command in Iraq," said U.S. Air Force Lt. Col. Almarah Belk. "If they want the U.S. to facilitate the purchase of something, they will work with the U.S. security cooperation office in Iraq before submitting a formal letter of request. The letter of request would then come to the Department of Defense, and the policy folks here would look at it and determine the feasibility and potential cost. They would prepare a letter of acceptance to the Iraqi government."

    The rebuilt tanks would join 77 formerly Hungarian T-72s that Defense Solutions rebuilt and delivered about three years ago.

    A few weeks ago, Iraq received U.S. State Department permission to buy 140 M1 Abrams tanks and 400 Stryker armored vehicles from the Pentagon, with deliveries in coming months.

    Ringgold said the Iraqis also want to buy 4,000 armored vehicles and more U.S.-built Abrams tanks. But a rebuilt T-72 is far cheaper than a $10 million Abrams tank, and so provides a way to arm the Iraqi force more inexpensively.

    Moreover, Iraqi forces are familiar with the T-72, having operated some 2,000 of the Soviet-built tanks until they were destroyed during the 2003 U.S. invasion.

    Founded in 2001, Defense Solutions also does port security consulting, modernizes combat vehicles and makes individual soldier equipment.

    "We are one of the few American companies to deal directly with the Iraqi government," Ringgold said. "It is a lengthy, cumbersome process. We have an office in the red zone with an all-Iraq staff. We are in downtown Baghdad."

    Iraqis To Decide

    The new tanks will help the Iraqis build a force of mechanized and heavy units as well as lighter infantry. The Iraqi government already has roughly 8,500 U.S.-built Humvees.

    "The U.S. has left it to the Iraqis to make the decision on equipment - allowing them to have the structure they want to define their new Army," Ringgold said.

    The U.S. Army in Iraq has been building up the force for the last several years by training the Iraqi Army and giving it some equipment.

    "You must get them up to the ability to take care of themselves," said Rickey Smith, director of the U.S. Army Capabilities Integration Center – Forward. "If you were trying to help another Army get on its feet, if you give them a more simple system as far as training and sustainment, you can help them."

    There is a new urgency to the buildup, thanks to the November agreement between Washington and Baghdad to remove most U.S. troops within three years.

    "Now that the Status of Forces Agreement designed to remove U.S. forces by December 2011 has been signed, we want the Iraqi Army to be able to respond without U.S. involvement," Ringgold said.

    Part of the rationale for helping arm the Iraqis is to prevent a power vacuum in the region when the majority of U.S. forces leave.

    "For example, one country that could threaten Iraq is Iran," Ringgold said. "The vehicles we are offering are better than what Iran has, but not equal to what American forces have."

    One analyst expressed concern about Iraq's choice of the T-72.

    "We learned in Fallujah and the taking of Baghdad that heavy armor is still valuable. I doubt a T-72 could deal with the EFPs [explosively formed penetrators] being sent by some Iranians to Shiite insurgents," said Loren Thompson, vice president of the Lexington Institute, a Virginia-based think tank.

    Another analyst praised the possibility of Iraq buying retrofitted T-72s, in part because the retrofitted tanks could be built to be interoperable with U.S. forces.

    "Basically, this makes sense. The T-72 is a little better than its current reputation, which was formed when Iraqi T-72s went up against U.S. forces in the open desert during the Gulf War," said Michael O'Hanlon, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institute, a Washington think tank.

    "While the T-72 is not quite as good as we thought it was in the '80s, it is much better than many other options," he said. "The modernized T-72s would largely be a deterrent against Iran and also a robust means of protection for internal counterinsurgency."
    Source: http://www.defensenews.com/story.php...49&c=FEA&s=CVS

  2. #2
    Senior Contributor chakos's Avatar
    Join Date
    21 Apr 08
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    1,122
    One question... WHY????

    They have run out of targets and whant to buy more?

    The T-72 has had its day noone short of bankrupt African regimes should be looking at them seriously.

    If Iraq wants to build up its tank forces and wants to stick to what it knows without going to Russia why not just buy the Ukranian T-84. Its a t-80/90 level tank, its a step forward from what the Iraqis are using now and its an evolution of what they are currently using. Makes perfect sense to me.

  3. #3
    Senior Contributor Yusuf's Avatar
    Join Date
    26 Dec 07
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    2,121
    Why would it not go for more M1s? T-72 has had its day in the sun.

  4. #4
    Contributor Kommunist's Avatar
    Join Date
    06 Nov 08
    Location
    Toronto, ON, Canada
    Posts
    598
    What I heard last was that they requested 100+ M1A1s from USA. What happened to that?
    Everyone has opinions, only some count.

  5. #5
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    29 Mar 08
    Posts
    999
    Good deal. If it materializes. First its cheap and second their usage will be mainly for domestic consumption (ie unrests) or low tech Arab/iranian armies anyway. With the upgrades they would even have a slight advantage over their neighbours.

  6. #6
    Senior Contributor Yusuf's Avatar
    Join Date
    26 Dec 07
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    2,121
    Quote Originally Posted by Kommunist View Post
    What I heard last was that they requested 100+ M1A1s from USA. What happened to that?
    140 ordered as per the report. But then why not order more of the same instead of opting for 70s design tanks?

  7. #7
    NUS
    NUS is offline
    Contributor NUS's Avatar
    Join Date
    29 Aug 08
    Posts
    414
    Iraq will pay Defense Solutions about $3 million per tank. But a rebuilt T-72 is far cheaper than a $10 million Abrams tank, and so provides a way to arm the Iraqi force more inexpensively.
    I always liked how US can handle their colonies. The cost of brand new T-90C is $3.7 millions.

    Good deal. If it materializes. First its cheap and second their usage will be mainly for domestic consumption (ie unrests) or low tech Arab/iranian armies anyway. With the upgrades they would even have a slight advantage over their neighbours.
    Well... If i were Iraqi citizen i would call it a total rip-off. But US will get the jobs, and i guess nobody have asked Iraq citizens anyway.

  8. #8
    New Member
    Join Date
    03 Nov 08
    Posts
    2
    i guess they just want an armored force delivered quickly. By purchasing from stock rather than making a production order they could get them alot quicker and have finished upgrading all 2000 by the time they get 200 T-84s.

    Also it idd not say the M1s were cancelled so im guessing that they will be purchasing more of them to form a main armored corps for military operations outside of Iraq

  9. #9
    Field mechanik Senior Contributor omon's Avatar
    Join Date
    01 Nov 06
    Location
    bk
    Posts
    3,276
    no new m1's are build since 1993.
    even t72 with right trained crew, modern flirs, rangfinder, fire control sys, and other electronic, is very capable.
    not to mention us contractor in pa gets the contract to retrofit 2000 tanks,
    Last edited by omon; 14 Jan 09, at 16:33.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

  10. #10
    Administrator Tarek Morgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    08 Feb 07
    Location
    Kassel
    Posts
    4,193
    Do the production lines even still exist? i.e. could be new m1 be built if ordered?
    uh I might be wrong


  11. #11
    OAF-Old Aggravating Fart Senior Contributor Shamus's Avatar
    Join Date
    13 Apr 07
    Location
    Spokane,WA
    Posts
    4,051
    Quote Originally Posted by Yusuf View Post
    140 ordered as per the report. But then why not order more of the same instead of opting for 70s design tanks?
    As Josef Stalin once said "Quanity has a quality all its own...." I.E. They're going for the cheap quanitative solution as opposed to the qualitative solution.
    "Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves, therefore, are its only safe depositories." Thomas Jefferson

  12. #12
    Military Professional
    Join Date
    30 Apr 08
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    799
    The T72 should be more than sufficient to deal with threats that Iraq might face (Iran, maybe Syria and Internal).

  13. #13
    OAF-Old Aggravating Fart Senior Contributor Shamus's Avatar
    Join Date
    13 Apr 07
    Location
    Spokane,WA
    Posts
    4,051
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarek Morgen View Post
    Do the production lines even still exist? i.e. could be new m1 be built if ordered?
    I'm not sure if the original production lines are still there.The plant is now fitting upgrade packages to existing inventory M-1's as they rotate back to the US.
    "Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves, therefore, are its only safe depositories." Thomas Jefferson

  14. #14
    Senior Contributor Stitch's Avatar
    Join Date
    14 Nov 06
    Location
    Patterson, CA
    Posts
    1,674
    Quote Originally Posted by Yusuf View Post
    140 ordered as per the report. But then why not order more of the same instead of opting for 70s design tanks?
    That's kinda what I thought; I'm pretty sure there are some older M1A1's in storage right now that could be parted with. And, if the Army's willing to give up some of their older M1A1's to sell to Iraq, that would give them an excuse to order some more M1A2 SEP's as a backfill.

    "Yeah. See, we plan ahead, that way we don't do anything right now. Earl explained it to me." - Tremors, 1990

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    07 Jan 09
    Location
    46°11'7.77"N 21°18'47.76"E
    Posts
    669
    Quote Originally Posted by chakos View Post
    One question... WHY????
    If Iraq wants to build up its tank forces and wants to stick to what it knows without going to Russia why not just buy the Ukrainian T-84. Its a t-80/90 level tank, its a step forward from what the Iraqis are using now and its an evolution of what they are currently using. Makes perfect sense to me.
    Ukraine cannot deliver 2000 t-84 oplot to Iraq, plus the price of a t-84 is prohibitive compared to a t-72.

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Iran president wants Israel "wiped off the map"
    By ZFBoxcar in forum The Iranian Question
    Replies: 170
    Last Post: 26 Sep 09,, 00:35
  2. Subdue Iran, secure Iraq
    By Ray in forum The Iranian Question
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 17 Jun 08,, 15:37
  3. Bliar in the Dock?
    By Ray in forum International Politics
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 16 Jan 07,, 22:01
  4. How much more of a pounding can the Shia's take?
    By Srirangan in forum International Politics
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 09 May 06,, 08:05
  5. Quagmire or not?
    By Shek in forum The Middle East and North Africa
    Replies: 72
    Last Post: 04 Jul 05,, 17:18

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •