Iraq Plans To Buy 2,000 T-72s

**Big K** · 29 Apr 09,, 23:46

Originally Posted by zraver

You forge a metal to make it stronger. Just like metal you can forge an army on nothing more than espirit de corps and an ideal. Look at the French Forgien Legion, the Waffen SS, the Gurkas, the colonials that went over the top in WWI and other military formations that do not fight for thier people or land, but for something else.

Foreign Legion take its roots to the exiles, the ones who want to put behind their ex life and start anew,

Waffen SS takes its roots from the nazi ideology which is an ultra nationalist, facist move,

Gurkas are a group of people from Nepal,

the colonials were formed and used together with their folks like ANZAC's.

all these groups have something in common, but you dont have it in that country...

**Officer of Engineers** · 30 Apr 09,, 01:36

Originally Posted by Steezy

I remember reading about this prototype Indian tank that's a T-72 at the bottom but has a modern/Western style turret, seems like the ideal compromise and a good intermediate between the "Light" Russian style tanks and the "Heavy" Western style composite tanks.

Tank-Ex.

ARJUN turret on a T-72 body. Problem: too much gun. The chasis was being shaken apart after each shot.

**zraver** · 30 Apr 09,, 04:35

[QUOTE=Big K;637088]Foreign Legion take its roots to the exiles, the ones who want to put behind their ex life and start anew,

Waffen SS takes its roots from the nazi ideology which is an ultra nationalist, facist move,

Gurkas are a group of people from Nepal, (who fight for people other than Nepal.)

the colonials were formed and used together with their folks like ANZAC's. (Iw asn't talking about the Anzacs and Canadian dominion troops but about the colonials who fought for the British, French, and Germans in WWI and II.

all these groups have something in common, but you don't have it in that country...

But you can forge it.

**1947** · 03 May 09,, 08:17

well if America were to offer more subsidized equipment to the Iraqis after leaving it would still have a certain influence over the iraqi govt - keeping it from straying towards undemocratic actions

**Big K** · 03 May 09,, 16:24

Originally Posted by zraver

But you can forge it.

that is what try to say. you can not.

kinda roots can not forged nor implemented.

the very simple and huge exemple is Iraq it self. Iraq is forged right after the WW1 by Brits and you see the result.

it was not a nation, it is not and it will be not.

if it was a nation or there was something which bind them then resistance would be incredibly different. you can not defeat a whole nation by force

unless you spread seeds of hatred

and it would break the "forgery" that we speak of.

**-{SpoonmaN}-** · 04 May 09,, 00:37

Originally Posted by Big K

that is what try to say. you can not.

kinda roots can not forged nor implemented.

the very simple and huge exemple is Iraq it self. Iraq is forged right after the WW1 by Brits and you see the result.

it was not a nation, it is not and it will be not.

if it was a nation or there was something which bind them then resistance would be incredibly different. you can not defeat a whole nation by force

unless you spread seeds of hatred

and it would break the "forgery" that we speak of.

Yes, you can. Look at India and Indonesia, both were basically a Galaxy unto themselves until they were forcibly unified by an external force, and now both have clear and strong national identities, with only small minorities maing any serious attempt to break away.

**kuku** · 04 May 09,, 06:37

Originally Posted by -{SpoonmaN}-

Yes, you can. Look at India and Indonesia, both were basically a Galaxy unto themselves until they were forcibly unified by an external force, and now both have clear and strong national identities, with only small minorities maing any serious attempt to break away.

This is the national emblem for a reason, and not signs from the mughal empire or the Raj.

**Big K** · 04 May 09,, 10:32

Originally Posted by -{SpoonmaN}-

Yes, you can. Look at India and Indonesia, both were basically a Galaxy unto themselves until they were forcibly unified by an external force, and now both have clear and strong national identities, with only small minorities maing any serious attempt to break away.

well this debate is going a bit off topic

but we were talking about a rather small group a fighting force like an army.

when it comes to life&death this group of warriors must have something common to fight for. my point was that there was no such thing in Iraq.

on the otherhand these exemples are not successful, are they? they are still experiencing problems based upon this forgery??

Indians have Mr. Gandhi and after him they have Pakistanis and there is a fine balance of inner politics in there, isnt there?

Indonesia i do not have enough info.

**zraver** · 04 May 09,, 22:38

Originally Posted by Big K

well this debate is going a bit off topic

but we were talking about a rather small group a fighting force like an army.

when it comes to life&death this group of warriors must have something common to fight for. my point was that there was no such thing in Iraq.

Sure there is, there is a mass of shared history. The only real divisions are religious.

on the otherhand these exemples are not successful, are they? they are still experiencing problems based upon this forgery??

There are people in the USA who don't like being part of it, that does not make the US a failure. There were people who won our highest medals for bravery in WWI and II who were the grandsons and great grandsons of rebels who fought to undue the union.

Indians have Mr. Gandhi and after him they have Pakistanis and there is a fine balance of inner politics in there, isnt there?

India has 1 billion souls unified for the most part as Indians first and what ever else second. The part that became Pakistan and Bangladesh amount of a significant but not anywhere near critical minority. About like the Kurd as compared to the Sunni and Shia. India has more Muslims than Pakistan!