Is the US now in the 'end game' in Iraq?

**Hitman817** · 09 Jan 09,, 09:56

Originally Posted by S-2

"Would be a very bad development for Turkey."

It would be the best of all worlds.

Instead of a dysfunctional Iraqi gov't held accountable for the KRG, the KRG itself would be accountable and thoroughly dependant upon the goodwill of the United States to survive all on their lonesome surrounded by wolves.

Nope. The Peshmerga would jump right quick to address the PKK if they thought that the survival of a Kurdish state rested on that single hair- and it would.

There's no way that we go into Kurdistan without that being priority #1 by the KRG to sail under our umbrella.

Once done, Turkey would have a firm ally on it's southern flank and the Kurds would have a secure route to market for their oil without crossing Iranian, Shia, or sunni territory within what remains of Iraq.

That would be the best case scenario, and I don't think it's a realistic one.

In my opinion, the US couldn't force the Kurds to fight the PKK and even if they promissed to do so there is no warranty that they would do it in the end. Thus the PKK would embolden by the US presence/protection and do what they always did and probably get massiv support by some nationalistic Kurds in the KRG. And of course the US presence would deny us our right to selfdefence and the antiamerican sentiments in Turkey would grow to knew hights. And from this point on everything is possible and none of it good.

S2 · 09 Jan 09,, 16:15

"In my opinion, the US couldn't force the Kurds to fight the PKK and even if they promissed to do so there is no warranty that they would do it in the end."

In my opinion we could. If Kurdistan retained ambitions of being a sovereign nation in the absence of a viable Iraq, the only way it'll happen is with our presence, much less help. If that doesn't get the Peshmerga's attention, then Kurdistan doesn't exist.

You must have missed or dismissed this comment by myself-

"There's no way that we go into Kurdistan without that being priority #1..."

We won't be in Kurdistan simultaneous to an active PKK insurgency from within. Doing so would destroy our relationship with Turkey. The caveat would be clear and immutable lest we forego the project altogether. If we do, Kurdistan sinks.

I'm convinced of the leverage, properly presented. Key is presenting the notion of Kurdistan as the diaspora's final redoubt. Incumbent to this notion is the primacy of a sovereign Kurdistan. This primacy takes precedent over any Kurd nationalist movement and shouldn't brook the endangerment of Kurdistan's survival of such from any of these elements.

Kurds worldwide can live under the laws of the nations to whom they're residents or immigrate to Kurdistan. There will be no half-measures if Kurdistan wishes to exist at all.

**osage18** · 09 Jan 09,, 16:33

Is here:

Proof the Iraq War is over: Troops allowed to drink on Super Bowl Sunday

**Oscar** · 09 Jan 09,, 16:37

Maybe an endgame for the US since any other troubles that will IMHO inevitably follow after their departure won't be their business anymore and they will be so glad to stick to it.

**osage18** · 09 Jan 09,, 16:42

S-2 said:

In my opinion we could. If Kurdistan retained ambitions of being a sovereign nation in the absence of a viable Iraq, the only way it'll happen is with our presence, much less help. If that doesn't get the Peshmerga's attention, then Kurdistan doesn't exist.

I don't really see why the Kurds would push for independence; they are basically enjoying it now. I have serious doubts about Barzani's willingness or even desire to fight the PKK.

We won't be in Kurdistan simultaneous to an active PKK insurgency from within. Doing so would destroy our relationship with Turkey. The caveat would be clear and immutable lest we forego the project altogether. If we do, Kurdistan sinks.

Agreed.

Kurds worldwide can live under the laws of the nations to whom they're residents or immigrate to Kurdistan. There will be no half-measures if Kurdistan wishes to exist at all.

I think the potential mass migration to Kurdistan is a significant worry for the Turks, with that being said, how long before the Kurds start to fight amongst themselves again? The common misnomer is that the Kurds all get along and are united. Far from true. I was told on numerous occasions by lower and mid-level Kurdish leaders (PUK, KDP, Pesh) that this "truce" forged since 2003 will not last much longer after the U.S. starts to leave. The one issue that may keep them somewhat aligned together is Kirkuk, IMO.

Sounds like you are all over it, Deuce. Just relaying what experienced.

**1947** · 16 Jan 09,, 22:12

in hindsight saddam should have been left alone
well now that the americans are planning on leaving the highly unpopular current iraqi govt will be toppled in a ethnic and religious coup paving the way for an iranian style Islamic republic. the most likly successor muqtada al sadr or someone eqvivalent.

**JAD_333** · 16 Jan 09,, 22:41

Originally Posted by 1947

in hindsight saddam should have been left alone
well now that the americans are planning on leaving the highly unpopular current iraqi govt will be toppled in a ethnic and religious coup paving the way for an iranian style Islamic republic. the most likly successor muqtada al sadr or someone eqvivalent.

WAB isn't a crystal ball for empty assertions. You can do better. Arguments?

S2 · 17 Jan 09,, 04:09

"I have serious doubts about Barzani's willingness or even desire to fight the PKK."

You may have missed this part-

"...in the absence of a viable Iraq..."

Faced with fighting the PKK with our coverage or fighting for their survival against Turkey, Iran, Syria, and the rest of Iraq in our absence, the Kurds will happily throw the PKK to China.

There will be no greater Kurdistan. Ain't happenin' under the aegis of the United States. Not carved out of any of the aforementioned areas. This is, geographically (after Kirkuk and Mosul shake out) as good as it'll get for the Kurds unless they can bite something out of Sunnistan and shiastan in Iraq with it's dissolval into civil war or some such. Immigration is interesting. Not all Turkish Kurds, by far, will choose to do so. Nor Iranian and Syrian Kurds.

**osage18** · 18 Jan 09,, 00:12

Originally Posted by 1947

in hindsight saddam should have been left alone
well now that the americans are planning on leaving the highly unpopular current iraqi govt will be toppled in a ethnic and religious coup paving the way for an iranian style Islamic republic. the most likly successor muqtada al sadr or someone eqvivalent.

What? Are you talking?

**JOgershok** · 18 Jan 09,, 08:41

Originally Posted by 1947

in hindsight saddam should have been left alone
well now that the americans are planning on leaving the highly unpopular current iraqi govt will be toppled in a ethnic and religious coup paving the way for an iranian style Islamic republic. the most likly successor muqtada al sadr or someone eqvivalent.

Muqtada al-Sadr is seen as a retard, yes, mentally deficient type of retard, by the majority of the Iraqi people. Someone else is pulling those strings while al-Sadr is in Iran studying to be an Ayatollah/pawn. His father was a true leader in Iraq but not this "ID ten T."

FYI: people who fail to use proper capitalization are often viewed in a similar fashion. Or is it just laziness?

**Happy_Girl** · 19 Jul 09,, 20:48

Yes, evne though the Iraq war should have never started.

**Bluesman** · 20 Jul 09,, 03:05

Originally Posted by Happy_Girl

Yes, evne though the Iraq war should have never started.

You obviously have no relatives that are Iraqi Shiites, no Kurdish family members, no attractive female friends that lived in proximity to Saddam's sons, nobody that you care about in Kuwait or Iran, and no connection to any Israelis.

If your point of view is that we're not better off now than before Saddam's regime was toppled, I can only conclude that you're a heartless (but still seemingly happy) girl, or that you have no dam' idea what benefits the war brought to this sad world of ours.

I was hoping that one of the reasons you were happy was that we WON in Iraq. You ARE happy about that, right? Because the guy you supported for President seems like he's ambivalent about it.

**nizawa** · 20 Jul 09,, 06:25

Iraq is there & need Uncle Sam's help. Why is so? Do not ask. The question is, y/n to
Uncle Sam's actions?

**US_MiltCom** · 20 Jul 09,, 08:15

Originally Posted by nizawa

Iraq is there & need Uncle Sam's help. Why is so? Do not ask. The question is, y/n to
Uncle Sam's actions?

Say what?

**zara** · 14 Sep 09,, 13:47

We get quite a lot of Iraqis and Iraqi expats visiting where I work. A few of them were saying the other day that they think The countries ready to look after itself - except for one guy, but he was Kurdish, so probably wants the Americans there as long as possible.

View Poll Results: Is the US now in the 'end game' in Iraq?

Thread: Is the US now in the 'end game' in Iraq?

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Rate This Thread

Display

Hitman817 Reply

Answer to the Thread:

Kurds

osage 18 Reply

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

Similar Threads

Democrats: What is the most politically-advantageous number of dead US troops?

How much more of a pounding can the Shia's take?

Iraq: Winning the Unwinnable War

What Is Going On In Iraq?...Here's an Idea Let's Ask Someone Who Has Been There.

A Preemptive Attack on Iran's Nuclear Facilities: Possible Consequences

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions