maqsad

Looks like he got tired of being called a puppet and decided what the hell, lets admit it with some style and dignity? Or maybe I missed the satire he laid out...

Karzai says US help saved Afghanistan -DAWN - Top Stories; January 27, 2008



WASHINGTON, Jan 26: The US-installed Afghan President Hamid Karzai has said that he knew people called him “a puppet of America” and he was willing to accept this image because without US help Afghanistan would have been occupied by its neighbours and Al Qaeda. Well he might be right there
“The US administration has helped Afghanistan and if we are called puppets, or if I am called a puppet because we are grateful to America, then let that be my nickname,” Mr Karzai told CNN. “Me a puppet? My God,” exclaimed Mr Karzai, when asked to comment on his perceived image as an impotent leader in thrall to the US administration.

But he quickly added that he was willing to shoulder insults in return for US assistance. “Anyway, Americans have helped Afghanistan tremendously. The American people have a feeling for Afghanistan a very, very great feeling,” he said. Oh really? Some would argue the American people been brainwashed by the media to hate Afghans. And "muslims" for that matter actually regardless of what the official denials might be.

“The truth is that without the United States in Afghanistan, Afghanistan would be a very poor, miserable country, occupied by neighbours and Al Qaeda and terrorists.”(hmmm how much did the CIA "help" Afghanistan during the soviet era, from a timeline perspective the US has been "helping" Afghanistan for decades and decades)

In the same interview, Mr Karzai urged the international community to help defeat terrorism in Pakistan, insisting that unless it’s done Afghanistan could fall into terrorist hands as well.

In a veiled reference to the theory that Pakistan needs Afghanistan for a strategic depth in its fight against India, Mr Karzai said that “misguided policy objectives” of some countries continued to fuel violence in Afghanistan, which could have disastrous consequences for the entire region.

“The fight against terrorism is not in Afghanistan, a very small part of it may be in Afghanistan, the bigger part is in the sanctuaries where they get trained where they get motivated that is where we should go and unless we do that this vicious circle will keep going.”

He said the Taliban were being funded partly by opium poppy crops, thriving due to the failure of efforts to eradicate them, from religious extremists and a “combination of criminals, misguided policy objectives and folly”. What is he saying here, isn't it obvious someone is LETTING the talibs grow their opium? A little birdy was once observed saying something about Karzai's relatives and trafficking...

He, however, rejected claims that Al Qaeda or the Taliban received funds from Saudi Arabia but expressed concerns over growing terrorism in Pakistan.

“The problem is growing, the problem has grown, unfortunately, of terrorism in Pakistan,” he said.

“I was concerned, I remain concerned but I had a very fruitful talk with President Musharraf last time. From that respect I hope there is more recognition of dangers there and of the dangers of the future of both countries and the region.

“Based on that I hope there will be a stronger effort in Pakistan and the region, and help from the rest of the world.”

S-2

"Some would argue the American people been brainwashed by the media to hate Afghans. And "muslims" for that matter actually regardless of what the official denials might be."

Would YOU argue these points, Maqsad? If you would not, why question Karzai's comment? How about your proofs, then, as it's reasonable to conclude that "Some" actually was "I".

We might as well cut right to it instead of the smarmy "Some would argue, etc...". I can't wait to hear how I've been brainwashed by my media to hate muslims and Afghans.

Proceed with your dissertation, sir.

__________________
"This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski

omon

“The truth is that without the United States in Afghanistan, Afghanistan would be a very poor, miserable country, occupied by neighbours and Al Qaeda and terrorists.
lol, isn,t it still the case?

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

S-2

"lol, isn,t it still the case?"

No. It's not the case. It's no longer, because of NATO's presence, a foregone conclusion that Afghanistan will forever be a basket-case.

maqsad

I would argue that the majority of Americans have a negative opinion of Afghans and Muslims, yes. I didn't really want to say it in my original post because it was just one of the many disagreements I had with Karzai's glossover of the whole US-Afghan relationship and I did not want to veer off on a tangent.

Americans, like most other societies around the world have been raised to believe that their way of life is the best on the planet and indeed many aspects of life are quantifiably better than in other countries such as income, rights to legal representation, civil liberties, intellectual freedom, access to free education and employment etc etc. The mainstream American has been weaned by the media to consider the average Afghan as a miserable wretch, a misogynist, fanatically religious and belligerent. It is quite a lot harder for an American to find anything positive about Afghanistan because quite simply, there isn't much effort made to produce such material, so it is quite natural to expect this attitude from an American towards an Afghan.

How prevalent is this negative attitude? I don't know if it's 50% or 75% or 90% but my own suspicion is that a significant majority of the American public has a negative attitude towards Afghans. 911 did not help much either. Karzai said that "the American people have a great great feeling towards Afghans". Well, there is probably a small minority of Americans who do feel sorry for Afghans and want to "civilize" the Afghans partly to ensure that radical Islam is snuffed out in that region. The remaining majority still wants to civilize Afghanistan but with an Iron fist and have little to no sympathy for Afghans and have an intense distaste for the Afghan mindset.

But my point was that hardly any American, much less a typical American regards Afghanistan's culture as one where any valuable lessons can be learned. And if you claim to be from the small portion that sidestepped brainwashing, well then that would be you but I was referring to the general CNN/FOX weaned everage Joe.

maqsad

Yes, almost. The neighbor was kicked out though.

Tronic

maqsad, do you reside in the states?

__________________
Nabha Sparasham Deeptam
-Touch The Sky With Glory

maqsad

Yes, why?

Tronic

No, was wondering how you came to the conclusion that majority of Americans have a negative attitude towards all Afghanis. Well, since you reside in the states, I won't argue with you. But just one point, Although I can somewhat agree that Fox is brainwash central (however whether it is against muslims/Islam is arguable); but CNN is quite anti-Bush and are most of the time busy bashing him; so I won't say that it is on a "brainwashing" spree. Anyhow, war propaganda is an essential tool to keep the populace on your side and it would be foolish to say that it is only Americans that are fed this. There is far more brainwashing going on in ME countries where media is far more strictly controlled then America.

S-2

"I didn't really want to say it in my original post because it was just one of the many disagreements I had with Karzai's glossover of the whole US-Afghan relationship and I did not want to veer off on a tangent."

How would this comment by you-one of five retorts you provided in your initial post-threaten to tangentialize your thread anymore than your other four mentioned disagreements?

"It is quite a lot harder for an American to find anything positive about Afghanistan because quite simply, there isn't much effort made to produce such material, so it is quite natural to expect this attitude from an American towards an Afghan."

First, why the agenda by the media against Afghanistan? For how long have we Americans been the unwitting dupes of this conspiracy to single out Afghanistan? Was it the media's objective that we actually come to "hate" all things afghan, to include the people themselves, or simply a result that exceeded their expectations of, say, indifference?

To summarize, we've been the victims/targets of a media campaign of " willful neglect" directed at Afghanistan (of all places). Our instinct, in the absence of available media information, is to "hate" Afghans? On both scores your premise reeks of projection.

"How prevalent is this negative attitude?"

"Hate" is a bit more dramatic than simply "negative" and you've not even remotely made a case for it's existance at all, much less to levels of prevalence.

"The remaining majority still wants to civilize Afghanistan but with an Iron fist and have little to no sympathy for Afghans and have an intense distaste for the Afghan mindset."

Maqsad, I put a nat'l flag in front of my moniker. You've the gall to make these claims against my fellow citizens and not enough forthright honesty to allow me to know a damn thing about you. Still, I already know that you bring a sickeningly skewed pre-conceived notion about Americans that is not substantiated by you in any remotely reasonable way.

Here's the worst part, you venomous jerk- we haven't even covered THIS little tidbit of yours yet,

"And "muslims" for that matter actually regardless of what the official denials might be."

I can't wait for more of your dissembling, mindless rationales about what we, collectively, think in a monolithic (mind you, with noted marginal outlyers to denote YOUR reasonable perspective) lock-step mindset march of Amerimania bent on spewing hatred of muslims.

Last, why the agenda by the media against Islam?

S-2

"it would be foolish to say that it is only Americans that are fed this [war propaganda]."

Tronic,

In a media market as diversified and competitive as ours, it would be foolish to say it at all. You had better find a war considerably more dynamic to bind America's media to some governmental-colluded war propaganda.

maqsad

I did not say that the vast majority of Americans have the exact same xerox-copied negative opinion on Afghans like some sort of cartoon character from "Team America World Police". There is quite a variety of mindsets present in mainstream america ranging from liberal to conservative, young, old, right-wing, nationalist, religious, agnostic etc etc. For each one of these mindsets however there is a different set of propaganda produced by American media and gobbled up by its target audience. The net effect is that no matter if an American is a fan of CNN, Fox, Clinton or Bush they will end up being fed war propaganda one way or another which creates a bias against Afghans, Muslims in general as well as the middle east as well as China. You don't have to reside in the states to understand this.

And as far as the middle east, I wasn't really saying that people in the ME have access to media that is more or less biased than in the US. All I said was that the average joe ends up being brainwashed to look down upon and scorn the typical Afghan and the Afghan way of life. Only reason I brought this up was to point at the meaningless phrases that Karzai was throwing around in his interview. Here he is on video btw, same interview:

YouTube - Karzai: Are You An American Puppet?

tankie

Steve , for f###s sake , stop beating about the bush and say what you mean

__________________
TANKIE , WITHOUT WAX

S-2

"The net effect is that no matter if an American is a fan of CNN, Fox, Clinton or Bush they will end up being fed war propaganda one way or another which creates a bias against Afghans, Muslims in general as well as the middle east as well as China."

So all paths lead to the same insidious source. Who would that be within the media? Further, these two questions remain unanswered-

1.) First, why the agenda by the media against Afghanistan?

2.) Last, why the agenda by the media against Islam?

Those are three questions that really deserve your elaboration. Please do so.

Your initial quote made no such qualification to differences within Americans. Not that it mattered later when you did, the insidiously tailored nature of this media campaign is bound to scoop the vast majority of Americans up in the specifically attenuated variations of one very nasty theme message.

Generally, maqsad, as things stand, it's a tasteless assertion that would be difficult to prove under any circumstance. Please start trying with something more than your idle musings (the above questions) or desist altogether.

maqsad

Is that two questions, or three? Anyway since you have challenged me to an e-duel over the expression of my own opinion then fine. I will clarify my stand and stick by it and back it up as reasonably as possible.