Adux

I found this video highly realistic and unbiased and non- dramatic

LiveLeak.com - Afghanistan - The Other War Pt 1 of 4

LiveLeak.com - Afghanistan - The Other War Pt 2 of 4

LiveLeak.com - Afghanistan - The Other War Pt 3 of 4

LiveLeak.com - Afghanistan - The Other War Pt 4 of 4

S-2

Into the Valley of Death

Same unit covered by Vanity Fair in a very good six page article. Look at the accompanying photos and the aforementioned video. This is some of the most hellacious terrain I've ever seen. These valleys are STEEP, DEEP, COVERED, & NARROW.

After seeing the depth of the cedar forests I now understand that there is heavy year-round cover available in this region. Access is probable with the exception of rock slides or snow that may block trails. Observation of these trails is probably physically impossible. The terrain has been massaged for ages. Note the terraces. So too, then, the trails.

Remember, this is one platoon. This brigade has two airborne infantry battalions and a RSTA squadron. Somewhere else is another 17-25 platoons doing the exact same thing. This is TOTALLY different than Helmand/Kandahar. Different war completely.

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"This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski

S-2

Looking into the "Valley of Death".

Attached Images

2007-12-21 Afghan Overwatch.jpg (465.4 KB, 102 views)

1idvet

Forgive me if this has been posted.
This is an article in Vanity Fair that is well done and should be read.

Into the Valley of Death

A lot More

You gotta love the Infantry.

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In Omnia Paratus

S-2

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/ope...tml#post441309

Linked already to ABC report further down the threads.

1idvet

I thought it might be too good to go unnoticed. Sorry for the double tag. Newbie error. I should know better.

S-2

Nope. It happens and at least you're on the lookout for our infantry and it's war. It is, right now, the most physically demanding battlefield on the face of the earth.

Funny that when I read defence.pk, our forces are routinely disparaged. Too much firepower and no cultural sensitivity. The truth, avoided assiduously there, is exactly the opposite.

Our infantry are nothing short of outstanding these days.

1idvet

No doubt. I have the utmost respect for my Infantry brothers that have to put up with that suck.

Hell, anyone really that has to deal with that terrain and that type of insurgancy has my deepest admiration.

Officer of Engineers

Captain,

Does it not disturb you that we are winning our war while even the most enlightened Pakistanis cannot accept that they're losing theirs? That they are more than willing to degenerate our accomplishments while explaining away their failures?

I don't know if we are going to win our war in Afghanistan but I do know that we are not experiencing the failures Pakistan is experiencing.

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Chimo

Agnostic Muslim

I don't believe you understand most "enlightened" Pakistanis if you believe that we think we are actually "winning our war".

As far as limited victories go, Pakistan has had a major one in Swat - and it is continuing to isolate Mehsud through cooperation with the Ahmedzai Wazir's.

With respect to denigrating NATO efforts, perhaps that is a failure on your part to present your side of the story. Pakistanis don't hear about the excellent piece written here - they hear about the weddings, villages and innocent children being bombed.

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Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah

Officer of Engineers

Are you? Honestly? Are you? Do you believe so? Do you believe that you have enough successes to carry on your momentum? Or do you believe you have to redefine your efforts? These are serious questions.

The 1st piece of good news I have heard in a long time. I applaud your victory but one victory does not make a war won.

The question I have is would you, as in the Pak popular opinion, change their minds if one set back occurred ... or are you now determined to carry through ... at least now, is your army determined to carry through ... because right now, the performance has been pokey dot.

I don't want to present NATO's side of the story, mainly because I remembered the Soviet's side of the story. The Soviets did the exact same things we're doing. The only difference is that we seemingly have better support from the Afghan populace. If, and I emphasized IF, that is true, than that is the story that I want to present ... and according to the ECONOMIST, we have 70% support.

Agnostic Muslim

None of the answers to those questions would satisfy you- because they would be approached under a different set of dynamics than what NATO faces in Afghanistan - and I am not referring to the purely military aspect of this conflict.

I think we have had more than one "set back", and "popular" Pakistani opinion has its own dynamics, with which us "enlightened Pakistanis" express our frustration quite vehemently - but at the end of the day, it is about what the "democratically chosen popular opinion" wants is it not? For that is exactly what your media and Governments repeatedly reminds us is best for us and shove down our throats. So let the chips of "popular opinion" fall where they may.

Most Pakistanis do equate the NATO presence with the Soviets, and arrive at the same conclusion - that atrocities galore are being committed, that NATO has no local support, and will eventually lose and be driven out. If your side cannot be bothered to explain its side of the story, then there is no need to complain about the mis-perceptions on our side. Is the "winning hearts and minds" effort faltering already?

Officer of Engineers

How so? I am asking a simple question. Can you carry through?

Seriously, I would like to know what the "democratically chosen popular opinion" is. I can tell you what the Canadian "democratically chosen popular opinion" is - we're carrying through with this war.

And you're missing the point altogether. It is not what NATO thinks nor what Pakistanis think. At the end of the day, it is what the Afghans think ... and the Afghans have been telling you big time what they think.

S-2

Colonel,

I honestly don't think that we're winning by any stretch nor shall at this rate of commitment. Not in Afghanistan. Not Pakistan. Not even Iraq. It's not the fault of our troops. I sincerely believe that my nation has never been better served with such professional excellence as we now see. I'm stunned by our quality, to be blunt.

I hate our lack of commitment. I hate our lack of unified command of singular purpose and focus. I hate the absence of control over NGOs that wander willy-nilly. I hate cowboys that see Afghanistan as their last frontier. Our untidy western facade masks an even more untidy and byzantine Afghan puzzle-palace. I hate that too.

One-third more people than Iraq. One-third more sq. miles than Iraq. About one-quarter of the troops. Who are any of us kidding? It's a joke and waste of dollars as currently pursued.

Agnostic Muslim

Militarily - Yes.

The capability is there and the discipline is there, even if the desire at the level of NATO is not. Whether all of that capability will be utilized is a different question.

The "popular opinion" at this point seems to be pretty much that - this war is one that the US started and the US wants to fight, and we are being unnecessarily dragged into it.

I would like to know what US or Canadian popular opinion would be if Iraq was in the place of Mexico, and half the suicide bombings were occurring within the US - especially given the sentiment (correct or not) that the war was needless.

If NATO really thinks that Pakistani efforts in FATA will make a difference then that is very much the point - because no democratic government in Pakistan will support a war that its people think is a Western ploy.

If you are referring to the numerous statements by Afghan officials, then I am afraid that I have to say that I don't really give a rats ass what a bloody warlord has to say about Pakistan - especially when they choose to bring out dreams of redrawing borders. The only Afghan opinions the Pakistanis are looking at are the Pashtun ones.