troung

German trucks said not tough enough for Afghanistan

Sun, 18 Nov 2007 12:23:01 GMT

Berlin - The German Army is to stop using a troop-carrying truck in Afghanistan after breakdowns on that nation's stony roads, according to a news report Sunday. The newspaper Welt am Sonntag said the Defence Ministry had confirmed to an opposition politician that the 28 Mungo trucks, which are made by Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW), would be brought home.

The suspension and axles of the Mungo, a four-wheel truck with armoured sides that can carry platoons, have been criticized as not robust enough.

The Mungos had not proved practical in Afghanistan, according to the ministry.

The trucks were sent of Afghanistan to offer German soldiers better protection from stray bullets than the 283 smaller, jeep-style Mercedes Wolf cars which are the main motor vehicle used as a runabout by the German peacekeepers.l
German trucks said not tough enough for Afghanistan : Europe World

Attached Images

	mungo mpv 00.jpg (74.0 KB, 80 views)
	Mungo_Germany_ILA_2006_002.JPG (265.4 KB, 80 views)
	mungo1.jpg (23.6 KB, 79 views)
	mungo aus101.jpg (171.1 KB, 79 views)
	MUNGO.jpg (135.5 KB, 79 views)

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omon

damn, it is a small truck, why didn,t they bring mersedes unimog to a-stan? that truck is great

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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

texasjohn

Dang! and look at the payload it can carry!!

Attached Images

unimog.bmp (541.3 KB, 75 views)

Adux

TJ,

reminds me of India when they used to carry hay on their trucks, reminds me of Jimmy Hendrix's afro.

Adu

Nothing beats the Hilux and patrol

braindead

I wonder if the end of Cold War has downgraded the quality of new military equipment . The Mungo is a good example - small quantities for niche role . No more 2000-10000 production runs , much less testing done , much less equipment development funds .

The Humvee , G-Wagen , Land Rover etc. vs. the new breed Iveco LMV/ UK´s Panther FCLV (was it 600 000 USD a piece ? ) . One finnish officer in A-Stan wrote that ´in his base these ones are all lined up and troops meant to use them still swear by G-Wagen .

Omon , the Mungo is for their airborne /sp.ops troops , it must fit into CH-53 and meant to operate together with tracked Weasel .

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braindead

Canadians used Nissans in A-Stan AFAIK . After 1 year of use they ´were not worth 100 dollars . Well , maybe canadian dollars . ´.

Adux

Somehow that Dollar is the most expensive one...lol

Big K

i think this is the point...that truck is for use for limited purposes? because obviously it is limited by his low ground clearance, small wheels and its size...these are my first impressions from the photos...

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When i say, there will be no effect but i am not willing to remain silent.
-Fuzuli

Officer of Engineers

G-Wagons. We don't use Nissans.

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Chimo

braindead

I meant back in 2003-2004 . I remember reading about it somewhere .

ray dekker

Ok - the "Bundeswehr" looks for very protected mobiles.
This include MBT´s up to mobiles in the max. 5to class (transportable in CH-53).
Especially care is taken for mineprotection.

-Maybe you saw on Leo II/6 used by Canada now and reported to having an accident with a very strong antitank mine - the crew left nearly unhurt-

The new Puma APC weights nearly 40to, due to extrem strong add on armor which is to be transported seperatly in the coming Airbus 400 Transport, because the APC full protected is to heavy.

Krauss-Maffei Wegmann – PUMA – Ihr Partner rund um Wehrtechnik

They choose the solution 3 Airbus 400 for 3 tanks and one for the add on armour of all three.


The "new army" will have 4 classes of protected mobiles, called Gff1 to Gff4.

Gff1:
5to.
transportabel in helicopter
protected against personal mines and normal guns (7.65?)

in this class they tested 4 cars, one the Mungo (which they ordered before in small numbers because urgently needed and they had nothing comparable).
No one succeded!

Gff2
6 to.
transportable in Transall (transporter ca. 40 years old !)
protected against sharpshooter guns and blast mines of 6 Kg.
they choose the "eagle" from MOWAG company a daughter of General Dynamics.

Gff3
same as above but
blastmine 8 kg
11 t
because of different profiles(for example weapon systems ) they coose 3 versions of Dingo (the Basic is Unimog)
and Yak

Gff 4
here you found before the Boxer which they took out now as separate system (more a battlefield mobile)
protected against all sort of mines, attaks from above and direct 25mm x 137
hits.
Krauss-Maffei Wegmann – PUMA – Ihr Partner rund um Wehrtechnik

now you find only 2 mobiles in this class:
Grizzly and Wisent
protection like class 3, but useable load of 2-4 to.
Both succeeded


You must see the german army as not very experienced in fighting -even controlling- in foreign territory, before the threat were giant tank armies on the own ground. They have to change nearly everything, reducing their tanklasting army to other equipment.

Also there is (as I see diminishing) official pressure against any military engagement. If a german soldier is killed or serious wounded, all newspapers are discusssing at once the full retreat of the army.
So protection is the first thinking, by the way as I see not a bad way of thinking!

I saw pictures, where american soldiers "pimped" theit humvee´s on their own, because armour was desperatly needed.
If the german official oppinion would realize such things gouvernment would have a real hard time.

Here you find some pictures - sorry text is in german (yahoo Babelfish?)

Neue Seite 1

click on "Aktuelle Ausgabe" - then on the "mehr" right of "24"

the article is about mineprotection.

You also may find pictures in german part of WIKIPEDIA when you enter the German names I quoted before, together with "tank" "Panzer" or "Fahrzeug"

Maybe you find also interessting the Fennek recce mobile.
Dutch and german army:
Krauss-Maffei Wegmann – PUMA – Ihr Partner rund um Wehrtechnik

and
Wiesel 1 and 2

See the wheight! airtransportable

waffenHQ.de ........ die Welt der Waffen
waffenHQ.de ........ die Welt der Waffen
see the version with mortar which will be introduced in this one
Military Page - Die Seite rund ums Militär
This one is english:
Wiesel AWC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Officer of Engineers

Nissans were never on the list. They're not even in the running in the 4x4 military market. Think you've meant the ILTIS built by BOMBARDIER.

braindead

No , not Ilthis - we got those over here too , but I´m not so sure about the ´canadians´-part .

found it - it were norwegians in A-stan . sorry about the confusion

braindead

this is what i´ve been talking about . This current crop of MRAP-s , all sort of new vehicle types and classes means that relatively small production runs , and urgent needs brings us a whole bunch of relatively untested vehicles , that need maybe too much support and are little bit too fragile and high-maintenance .


If the WAB´s ´identify the military equipment´-thread is still running in 2027 i guess it is mostly about 2003-2013 era MRAP-s and UAV-s probably

braindead

BTW - Ray do you have any idea where to find something about the Mercedes´s new S2000 series trucks . Google is not my friend today .