Officer of Engineers

The Americans, Brits, and Canadians are the only ones conducting combat operations in clearing the Taliban from their AOs.

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Chimo

Stan187

"When Dutch units patrol, they usually avoid known hostile zones, which include expansive patches of Uruzgan Province. When a Dutch unit is attacked, it typically withdraws from enemy range"

"They say their units had better relations with Iraqis, and faced less fighting, than did American units"

"Since the task force began operations last August, it has not suffered a combat fatality"

All of these statements kind of resonate, in my mind, with a "Duh!!!". Of course the Iraqis liked em more than the Americans. Insurgents are Iraqis too. COIN is COIN. Its not winning a popularity contest, its providing an alternative and showing people that its more beneficial. The Dutch can't stomach casualties, and that makes them appear weak, and gives the Talibaners the initiative. As someone who is currently learning more and more COIN (under some indirect tutelage/suggestions of Major Shek, among others), the Dutch tactics are at best an extreme application of concepts, at worst just plain out embarrasing.

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The Russian Navy is still a threat, but only to those unlucky enough to be Russian sailors.-highsea

astralis

stan,

for better or for worse, there's political limitations..

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Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present.

-Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Ray

Colonel,

I think you have not got what I have stated.

As I see COIN, it is all about winning the hearts and mind.

However, if fired upon or attacked, then one has to show that one is not afraid of a fight even if they would rather not do so. If the fight is brought upon you, then you sure give it back and then go back to the business of Hearts and Minds!

The hearts and mind thing cannot be done if you are under fire!

Withdrawing when fired upon, to my way of looking, is just not acceptable.

Nor would I find it acceptable to AVOID Hostile areas.

It would never happen under my command!

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"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

Stan187

Here's the thing about hearts and minds, it doesn't mean being nice to people (though such a thing is a plus), winning the hearts and mind means providing visible results for the population to see. Security, COINcidentally, if provided, is really valued. Turning tail and running after being engaged is convincing the wrong people (the enemy) and the right people (the rest of the population) of the wrong thing (your lack of commitment).

Stan187

I don't doubt it for a second. But there is no need to pretend. Either send forces with a free hand or don't send forces, no middle road with hands tied behind backs. If the Dutch want to be of real help, don't send forces that aren't allowed to do their job, just foot the bill for Romanians to do it, that would be of more help.

Woodsy the Lar

The best way would be the model of the Congo in the 60`s where Col Mike Hoare and his 5 commando were set up with the help of the goverment and low and behold this mercenery group kicked the Russian led rebellion out of the country and bought peace for a while. They were not interested in political opinion or the rules of war just getting the job done and getting paid.

Woodsy the Lar

middle of the road with hands tied behind backs.

Is that a new torture at guantanamo bay.I personally would crack if they played chirpy chirpy cheep cheep more than once.

glyn

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Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.

Tasman

In an interview on The World Today Neil James, Executive Director of the Australia Defence Association, commented on the Australian government's recent decision to send 300 special forces troops to support the Australian reconstruction task force already there. Mr James said of the NATO force:

Apart from a small security detachment of 120, Australia has relied on the Dutch to protect its reconstruction group. Talking about the need for Australia to provide its own troops rather than rely on the Dutch for this role, Mr James said:

The World Today - Analysts warn Afghanistan battle cannot be won

I think that the comments made by Neil James on behalf of the Australia Defence Association provide a good summary of the problems facing the NATO led force. A situation where soldiers from some countries are expected to take more risks and therefore the likelihood of higher casualties than their counterparts from others does not make for a cohesive operation

Cheers

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Learn from the past. Prepare for the future.