'The Ammo Was Rubbish'

troung · 11-27-2006, 14:06 PM

'The Ammo Was Rubbish'
Updated: 12:05, Thursday November 23, 2006

British paratroopers refused to go on patrol in Afghanistan because their ammunition was faulty, it has been reported.

The soldiers from 3rd battalion had to borrow bullets from Canadian and American colleagues to fend off Taliban attacks.

A video has been posted on YouTube showing two troops struggling to operate a Browning machine gun because of the dud bullets.

One can be heard swearing in frustration as the sound of incoming fire is heard.

The Daily Telegraph said MoD officials have been unable to explain how the faulty Browning ammo was sent to Afghanistan.

It is thought it came from Pakistan or the Czech Republic, where a round costs 60 American cents (31p), compared to $1.50 (78p) elsewhere.

They may even have been made for a different machine gun

A Parachute Regiment source told the paper: "The ammo we had was rubbish, it just kept jamming.

"At one point we refused to go out because it was so bad. We managed to scrounge some. If we had not got that ammo we would certainly have lost a lot of people."

The MoD said there was no current problems with ammunition.

RustyBattleship · 11-28-2006, 02:05 AM

[quote=troung;301304]'The Ammo Was Rubbish'
Updated: 12:05, Thursday November 23, 2006
A video has been posted on YouTube showing two troops struggling to operate a Browning machine gun because of the dud bullets.

It is thought it came from Pakistan or the Czech Republic, where a round costs 60 American cents (31p), compared to $1.50 (78p) elsewhere.

They may even have been made for a different machine gun
QUOTE]

A BROWNING Machine Gun? You certainly can't be referring to the M1917 water cooled or M1919 air cooled guns of my day.

Unless you are referring to the venerable and nearly always reliable M2 .50 caliber Machine Gun.

I have never seen an M2 jam. But I have heard of the aircraft versions jamming because the belt feed in the wings wasn't quite right.

But you may have a hint of the problem: "It is thought it came from Pakistan or the Czech Republic," Could it be that they shipped the British 12.7 mm ammo made for the RUSSIAN 12.7? Though the bullets are the same bore diameter, I believe there is a slight difference in case sizes.

Let you ammo experts do the comparisons.

gunnut · 11-28-2006, 04:42 AM

Off the top of my head I want to say the M2 uses 12.7mm x 99mm, and the Russian 50 cal uses 12.7mm x 107mm. I could be off by a few mm.

Here we go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12.7_x_107_mm

But these Russian rounds shouldn't even be able to chamber in the M2 as the case is too long for the bolt to close...

Shipwreck · 11-28-2006, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustyBattleship

But you may have a hint of the problem: "It is thought it came from Pakistan or the Czech Republic," Could it be that they shipped the British 12.7 mm ammo made for the RUSSIAN 12.7? Though the bullets are the same bore diameter, I believe there is a slight difference in case sizes.

Let you ammo experts do the comparisons.

The US (12.7mm x 99) and Russian (12.7mm x 108) cartridges are indeed NOT interchangeable.

Bullets themselves are different (US ammo on the left, Russian ammo on the right).

11-27-2006, 14:06 PM	#1 (permalink)
troung A Self Important *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-03-03 Posts: 4,236 Country:	'The Ammo Was Rubbish' 'The Ammo Was Rubbish' Updated: 12:05, Thursday November 23, 2006 British paratroopers refused to go on patrol in Afghanistan because their ammunition was faulty, it has been reported. The soldiers from 3rd battalion had to borrow bullets from Canadian and American colleagues to fend off Taliban attacks. A video has been posted on YouTube showing two troops struggling to operate a Browning machine gun because of the dud bullets. One can be heard swearing in frustration as the sound of incoming fire is heard. The Daily Telegraph said MoD officials have been unable to explain how the faulty Browning ammo was sent to Afghanistan. It is thought it came from Pakistan or the Czech Republic, where a round costs 60 American cents (31p), compared to $1.50 (78p) elsewhere. They may even have been made for a different machine gun A Parachute Regiment source told the paper: "The ammo we had was rubbish, it just kept jamming. "At one point we refused to go out because it was so bad. We managed to scrounge some. If we had not got that ammo we would certainly have lost a lot of people." The MoD said there was no current problems with ammunition. __________________ To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

11-28-2006, 04:42 AM	#3 (permalink)
gunnut *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 01-27-06 Location: DPRK, Democratik People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 9,361 Country:	Off the top of my head I want to say the M2 uses 12.7mm x 99mm, and the Russian 50 cal uses 12.7mm x 107mm. I could be off by a few mm. Here we go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12.7_x_107_mm But these Russian rounds shouldn't even be able to chamber in the M2 as the case is too long for the bolt to close... __________________ "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb. Last edited by gunnut : 11-28-2006 at 04:44 AM.

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11-28-2006, 02:05 AM	#2 (permalink)
RustyBattleship *Defense Professional* Join Date: 01-12-06 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 2,721	[quote=troung;301304]'The Ammo Was Rubbish' Updated: 12:05, Thursday November 23, 2006 A video has been posted on YouTube showing two troops struggling to operate a Browning machine gun because of the dud bullets. It is thought it came from Pakistan or the Czech Republic, where a round costs 60 American cents (31p), compared to $1.50 (78p) elsewhere. They may even have been made for a different machine gun QUOTE] A BROWNING Machine Gun? You certainly can't be referring to the M1917 water cooled or M1919 air cooled guns of my day. Unless you are referring to the venerable and nearly always reliable M2 .50 caliber Machine Gun. I have never seen an M2 jam. But I have heard of the aircraft versions jamming because the belt feed in the wings wasn't quite right. But you may have a hint of the problem: "It is thought it came from Pakistan or the Czech Republic," Could it be that they shipped the British 12.7 mm ammo made for the RUSSIAN 12.7? Though the bullets are the same bore diameter, I believe there is a slight difference in case sizes. Let you ammo experts do the comparisons.

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