Thread: Why Afghanistan is the wrong war

Ok I do recall now that Shiny Capstar had got himself transferred from RARO into the TA (London Regiment), was going for ATP, that was some months back. Dunno about him but his wife was going to her second tour of Stan next year.

Originally Posted by dave lukins

All TA Units have been ordered to stop training for a 6 month period to save on cash...Is that not just unbelievable

Really?? Thats wierd, IIRC Capt SC said some time back all TA units are being told they'd be deployed abroad rotationally within 5 years, wonder how that'll be effected if they stop training?

Originally Posted by astralis

julie,
i wasn't aware that ann coulter was a foreign policy expert, let alone one in the AfPak region. in fact, i am not aware that she is an expert in anything, other than finding creative ways to insult people and marketing her looks.

It doesn't take an expert to notice that Obama and many congressional Democrats last year were calling Afghanistan the right war and have doubts today. But that's ok; it was just campaign rhetoric. Amnesia is nornal in the year after the election.

Originally Posted by S-2

Afghanistan is the wrong war.

This show needs to move one country over to the east.

You may be right, S-2. I can see it both ways. If right and wrong hinges on being brutally objective about what is in our best long term national interests, you're right; it's likely the wrong war. Decisions about the war, however, seem to be driven by more than just national interest. That worries me, because there is no end to just causes. Acting in our national interests is a narrower criteria, but IMHO more senible in the long run.

Originally Posted by astralis

julie,
i wasn't aware that ann coulter was a foreign policy expert, let alone one in the AfPak region. in fact, i am not aware that she is an expert in anything, other than finding creative ways to insult people and marketing her looks.

She's not, on all counts. However, she did get lucky in hitting a chord with me.

My point in this topic was that in all of the fighting we did here on WAB about attempting to justify the war in Iraq, Ann Coulter's article justified it for me in explaining why Afghanistan is the wrong war, and why Bush picked Iraq for good reasons. The article made me reflect back on alot of one-liners Bush said that I thought was completely idiotic, but now make good sense in a war strategy.

Be that as it may, I am now very concerned about the current administration and it's ignorance as to this issue.

"If right and wrong hinges on being brutally objective about what is in our best long term national interests, you're right; it's likely the wrong war"

JAD,

I'm just pissin' in the wind with my venom. There's no traction in our administration to acknowledge the obvious issues there which I harp about too constantly in any case. Not sure that there's any in the upper echelons of our military leadership either.

Kerry-Lugar will rule the day and we'll spend (IIRC) through the full ten year commitment $15B to achieve NO functional changes nor any in perception.

You are bucking for that "quote of the day" award aren't you S-2? )

Originally Posted by S-2

JAD,

I'm just pissin' in the wind with my venom. There's no traction in our administration to acknowledge the obvious issues there which I harp about too constantly in any case. Not sure that there's any in the upper echelons of our military leadership either.

Hard to know what gets bandied about across the table in the Situation Room. For public consumption the issues get simplified. Public diplomacy thinkers frame the message we get. I experienced the duality of one conversation going on inside and another going on outside when I was at DoD. I could see the inside one was more nuanced. The KISS principle rules when the public message is crafted. Frustrating for educated outsiders.

Kerry-Lugar will rule the day and we'll spend (IIRC) through the full ten year commitment $15B to achieve NO functional changes nor any in perception.

Monster bribe.

"Monster bribe."

Or reward but for what?

I keep getting told that they're an invaluable non-NATO ally but I ask myself,

"What do they do to be such?"

Contribute troops to ISAF? Nope. Refuel our aircraft? Nope. Allow tarmac access to our Air Force? Nope? Transit of goods to Afghanistan? Yup. We PAY their private contractors for that.

I'm told of all the sacrifice made by their army and citizens and I ask,

"Where?"

Those soldiers die defending those citizens inside Pakistan. Both. IN PAKISTAN. For what else does a country keep an army? Even then, they seemed fully prepared to abdicate the rest of their sovereignty last April. So do we reimburse them for defending themselves? Yes. Wouldn't they do so in any case? I don't honestly know. If not, should I care? Nope.

I have two friends there whom I absolutely adore. I don't know if they feel the same. The other 174,999,998 of their citizens? I could care less about and see them as beyond salvation but worse, as a mortal danger to mankind.

"You are bucking for that "quote of the day" award aren't you S-2?)"

So you agree that Ann Coulter looks horsey too?

Originally Posted by S-2

"Monster bribe."

Or reward but for what?

I keep getting told that they're an invaluable non-NATO ally but I ask myself,

"What do they do to be such?"

Contribute troops to ISAF? Nope. Refuel our aircraft? Nope. Allow tarmac access to our Air Force? Nope? Transit of goods to Afghanistan? Yup. We PAY their private contractors for that.

I'm told of all the sacrifice made by their army and citizens and I ask,

"Where?"

S-2:

It's perhaps a matter of degree. From some "allies" we get more and from others less. But less in our eyes may be a lot in theirs. In Pak we're dealing with a weak civilian administration in a country where the military is always one step away from staging a coup and where the populace doesn't like us much. A glass of water costs a lot more in the desert than in the rainforest.

Those soldiers die defending those citizens inside Pakistan. Both. IN PAKISTAN. For what else does a country keep an army? Even then, they seemed fully prepared to abdicate the rest of their sovereignty last April. So do we reimburse them for defending themselves? Yes. Wouldn't they do so in any case? I don't honestly know. If not, should I care? Nope.

They're slow to rise to the threat. They probably blame us for it, since before all this started they were cushy with the Taliban. But it seems after 8 years of crying over spilt milk, they're starting to accept the new geopolitics of the region and to recognize the real threat to secular rule that's lying right in their front yard.

I have two friends there whom I absolutely adore. I don't know if they feel the same. The other 174,999,998 of their citizens? I could care less about and see them as beyond salvation but worse, as a mortal danger to mankind.

One on one, most I've met are ok, at least outwardly. Never know when one of them is a closet bomber. I suspect the average Pakistani is just like us: family, work and enjoy's life in between.

Originally Posted by S-2

"You are bucking for that "quote of the day" award aren't you S-2?)"

So you agree that Ann Coulter looks horsey too?

Absolutely.