Pakistan vs. Taliban thread

[Khan Sahab]

Big question here. Has it become Pakistan's war or is it still America's war?

Made in America.
Imported to Pakistan (with customer care program).

[Officer of Engineers]

So I take it that while there is no opposition to the army doing its thing, there's also no clamouring for Taliban blood.

[Khan Sahab]

So I take it that while there is no opposition to the army doing its thing, there's also no clamouring for Taliban blood.

Wait n see.

[S2]

I spend a lot of time elsewhere that possesses a goodly number of your Pakistani peers.

As of today, the STRONG sentiment is that "hidden hands" and "external forces" are focusing B. Mehsud's efforts against Pakistan and that, still, command-detonated IEDs against civilians, acid spraying of children, beheadings, mutiliations, gang-pressed recruitment and forced marriages are fine for afghanis in the name of "freedom" but not so tolerated by the ulema within Pakistan.

This notable and less-than-charitably imbalanced perception of the two faces of the taliban rings as strongly as ever. Despite the ABC/BBC/ARD polls indicating the taliban (at 7% approval) possess just over half the approval accrued by the next highest fighting force in Afghanistan (foreign irhabists at 13%), somehow these beasts are "freedom fighters".

The narrative is skewed and explains all-too-clearly how even now there's no room in the Pakistani perspective to see the consequence of opening your lands as sanctuary in 2002 for the defeated taliban gov't of Afghanistan, it's defeated army, and their associated A.Q. affiliates.

Same guys-two sides. Same heinous behavior-but acceptable when inflicted on your afghan muslim brothers.

I note with sadness the tranquil lives led in Quetta by the shura and it's associates. Seven and one-half years of unhampered war made against the people of Afghanistan and ISAF/NATO/America under the UN mandate under the unbrella and protection of your army. Omar, unlike Mehsud, is ASSIDUOUS in adhering to the needs of the ISI. NO issues from his men whatsoever. No attacks by the P.A. in seven and one-half years upon them either.

Quite an arrangement.

I equally note with sadness the subsequent radicalization of the the Islamic Emirate of Waziristan LOOOONG before PREDATOR ratcheted it's presence last year. Waziristan has grown as a thorn in Pakistan's side since at least 2004. This radicalization was inevitable in any society that would hold A.Q. and the afghan taliban as worthy of emulation.

Welcome to blowback that defies any "containment".

Pakistan's relations with forty other nations in Afghanistan are affected by these decisions. Most notably, it's difficult to suggest that afghanis have no right to counter-vailing war upon Pakistan under these circumstances.

I see no such examples of such though, reject the childish notion of Mehsud as a CIA minion, and encourage you to appreciate the full impact that the world's largest private arms dealers in the G.C.C. states coupled with opium and the world's richest and most guilt-ridden wahabbi/salafi financial donors aren't your "hidden hand".

Think about it. Holbrooke has suggested that opium provides the movement with about half it's funds and gulf donors with the rest. Given the conduits for opium south out of Helmand to Karachi and beyond and those same marketing channels for weapons from the gulf or elsewhere, it seems clear that the private arms networks are uniquely positioned to profit from both.

This is a war fueled by wahabbist nefarious ambitions and it's in the G.C.C. and KSA where the culprits lie.

Thanks.

[Merlin]

The fightings going on now in Pakistan against the Talebans are of global importance and demand attention. But they are complex and to many they are difficult to comprehend.

This BBC article below is providing a good summary. As usual, click into the link for the full article.

Long war against Pakistan Taleban

2 Jun [BBC] ISLAMABAD Pakistan's security forces appear to have achieved their main objective in Swat with the capture of its administrative seat of Mingora.

That region and the rest of the Malakand division now seem to be under the control of the Pakistan army.

Some fighting is still going on in the mountainous rural areas - especially the Peochar valley, the militants' main stronghold.

Everyone on the list of most wanted militants - from Osama Bin Laden onwards - is said to be hiding in that area.

Swat's turn in the limelight may be entering its final phase, in fact some senior government officials believe it is already over.

The army now seems to be preparing itself for a new front as clashes erupt across the tribal region of Waziristan.

Baitullah Mehsud, supreme leader of the militant alliance Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), now awaits them.

As a prelude to that operation, Pakistan's intelligence agencies have been whittling away at his influence.

Increasingly he is faced with dissent and duplicity in his South Waziristan base.

A rival clan led by powerful pro-government leader, Turkistan Bittani, has been making in-roads at his expense.

He is aided by Qari Zainuddin Mehsud, leader of the Abdullah Mehsud group in Waziristan.

Until his death, Abdullah Mehsud was, along with Baitullah, the main Taliban commander among the Mehsud tribe. ...

[Merlin]

The above quotes are about the fightings going on. Further down the long article, the author mentioned the need for a change of tactics in the fight against the Talebans.

This change of tactics seems to imply that winning the hearts and minds of these tribes is as important to the Pakistan Army and government as winning battles.

In fact, there is a recurring pattern to the army's offensives.

Troops nearly always tend to be deployed following international claims that the area in question is newly under al-Qaeda's control and poses a threat to the country's nuclear arsenal.

The fighting often ends up leaving a largely aggravated population at the mercy of those from whom they were being rescued.

This in turn can create resentment against the government - if only a handful out of the 2.5 million people forced to leave Swat in the most recent fighting end up joining the Taliban, the militants would still receive hundreds of new recruits into their ranks.

For many people in the war-hit north-west there is increasingly only one choice, join the Taliban or leave their ancestral lands.

That is maybe one reason why almost every family in Taliban-dominated areas has a member in the militant forces.

The young glamourise the militants and that - combined with the tribal concept of badal, or an eye for an eye - becomes binding on each family who loses a member in the war.

Every time the army drops a bomb or fires a bullet in the north-west it is in danger of stirring up resentment among some civilians which will create new enemies in future years.

The militants in Swat may well lose the battle over the coming days and the future of Baitullah Mehsud appears increasingly uncertain.

But unless the Pakistani government - and indirectly the international community - changes its tactics, the Taliban can still win the war.

[ghatotkacha]

deja vu anyone ??

Bajaur -- return of the militant

Three months on and the militants are back in full swing. Proof of this comes from the following recent developments: militants have established checkpoints in Umaray, Damadola, Seway, Badan and Kamar areas of Mamund tehsil and almost all areas of Charmang. They are also conducting snap checking of vehicles in the Tangi/Gang and Mandal areas. Armed militants patrol all these areas and even the areas of Sheikh Baba, Babar Shah, Shago and Lashora in the agency headquarters of Khar. FM radio stations run by militants are still airing propaganda against Pakistan and the army. They are also issuing threatening decrees against the people who sided with the army in the operation. The militants have declared CNICs as un-Islamic and have threatened to kill women who apply for CNICs. Kidnappings and beheadings have again started in the agency and the Salarzai lashkar's headquarters in Pashat has been attacked several times by the militants.

Malik Munir of Mamund lashkar, Malik Kamal Khan of Salarzai lashkar and many elders of Mandal lashkar have been target-killed in Khar. Ears of four members of the peace committee in Khar village were chopped off by the militants. During the most recent polio campaign -- which took place just a week ago -- the militants severely beat up polio teams in Tangi, Maminzo, Babar Shah and Faja areas of Khar, all within one kilometre of the local FC headquarters. Armed militants beat up people at the Post Office in Khar Bazaar because they applied for the government assistance under the BISP scheme. The Post Office is a stone's throw from the heavily guarded office of the Commander Bajaur Levies. Seeing this situation, ordinary tribesmen are losing confidence in the government and security forces. They want a final, decisive action against the militants in Mamund, Charmang, Mandal and Tangi/Gang areas before it is too late. They wonder if the situation can be controlled with a bullet today why go for a magazine a few months later.

[hj786]

So I take it that while there is no opposition to the army doing its thing, there's also no clamouring for Taliban blood.

DAWN.COM | Provinces | Upper Dir tribesmen avenge mosque blast, attack Taliban

Locals kill 13 extremists in Upper Dir - GEO.tv

Jaag Utha Pakistan, cry villagers

Earlier, an elder of the area, wishing anonymity, said they would not allow the foreign militants to remain entrenched in the area and rule the people through terror.

“We had no hostility with the Taliban except that we are not ready to allow them to unleash terror here. We cannot tolerate the foreign militants in the area and we will keep opposing them,” he told The News by phone.

“They killed our children and we are not going to spare them. We will certainly take action against the Taliban to avenge the death of our sons.”

[Merlin]

These sort of incidents against the militants do happen. I'm not sure how common. Are these reports all about the same incident?

Villagers fight Taliban after Pakistan mosque blast

7 June ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Villagers in northwest Pakistan have attacked Taliban militants killing seven of them in revenge for a bomb attack on a mosque that killed at least 40 people, a top government official and residents said on Sunday.

It was the latest in a series of instances of people turning their guns on the Taliban in recent weeks and trying to force them out of their areas and will encourage the Pakistani government which needs public support to defeat the militants.

The United States, which needs sustained Pakistani action to help defeat al Qaeda and cut off militant support for the insurgency in Afghanistan, will also be heartened by the move.

The Pakistani military has been battling Taliban in the Swat valley, northwest of the capital, for more than a month after the militants took advantage of a peace pact to gain new ground.

The army offensive has broad public support even though many in Pakistan are ambivalent about the Taliban and are wary of the government's close alliance with the United States. ....

After the [militant's mosque] blast, enraged villagers formed a militia, known as a lashkar, of about 500 men to expel the militants from the area, said the top government official in the region.

"They are standing up against the militants themselves as they consider them troublemakers," the government administrator, Atif-ur-Rehman, told Reuters by telephone. ...

[tankie]

these sort of incidents against the militants do happen. I'm not sure how common. Are these reports all about the same incident?

villagers fight taliban after pakistan mosque blast

Good , and about time , well done them .

[RAQIB_ALI]

Its time the pakistan army finish the taliban in pakistan forever afterall its the weakest they been in pakistan for a long time. There losing hearts and minds

[Merlin]

This seems to be the first time they are bombing luxury hotels in Pakistan's cities.

Pakistan luxury hotel blast toll rises to 16

PESHAWAR, Pakistan (AFP) — The death toll from a suicide blast at a luxury hotel in Pakistan's northwest Peshawar city has risen to 16, while 57 people were injured, senior police officials said Wednesday.

Early reports suggest at least two men shot their way through a security barrier and rammed a pick-up truck packed with explosives into the five-star Pearl Continental hotel late Tuesday, causing massive devastation. ...

Two foreign United Nations workers --.... -- were killed, the UN said, while many foreigners were among the injured.

It is the seventh deadly bombing to hit the troubled city in a month, as fears grow that Taliban militants are exacting revenge for a punishing six-week military offensive against them in three northwest districts.

[Merlin]

A group has claimed responsibility for the hotel blast in Peshawar.

AA Shaheed Brigade claims responsibility for Peshawar attack

Islamabad, June 11 (PTI) A little-known group led by a militant commander with links to the Pakistani Taliban has claimed responsibility for the suicide car bombing of the Pearl Continental hotel in Peshawar, saying it was even capable of carrying out an attack in the federal capital.

Amir Muawiya, claiming himself a spokesman of the Abdullah Azzam Shaheed Brigade, telephoned reporters in northwestern Kohat town yesterday to claim responsibility for Tuesday's attack on the five-star hotel and warned the group would carry out more such bombings.

Asked for proof that his group had carried out the attack on the Pearl Continental, Muawiya said his organisation would be willing to explode a small bomb outside the BBC office in Islamabad to prove its power and capability.

Muawiya said the bombing was carried out in retaliation for operations by Pakistani armed forces "at the behest of the US" in Swat and Malakand division of the North West Frontier Province and the tribal areas of Darra Adam Khel and Aurakzai Agency. He claimed "important people", including foreigners, were killed when the hotel was bombed. ....

[astralis]

merlin,

no, AQ/taliban did a much bigger marriott blast a while back.

[n21]

DAWN.COM | Provinces | Upper Dir tribesmen avenge mosque blast, attack Taliban

Would it happen that this mosque belongs to Shitte Community?

I cant see Taliban attacking a sunni mosque.