Thread: are submersable carriers possible

Originally Posted by canadian boy

i have been told that the japanese develpoed a submersable carrier that carried 2 bombers and that the americans took the design to the next step and made it even more powerful. is it even possible these rumors may be true?

No such animal as far as a conventional (manned) aircraft carrier submarine for the USN is concerned.
The Japanese and British had them....trying to remember if anybody else did.

Interesting concept, just very expensive and of limited utility.

The Japanese submarines were enormous. It's a pity the USN had to deep-six them like that.

Main weapon of submarines is stealth, being a carrier does not add anything to that. Only substracts.

I found a book at our university library that was chock-full of hybrid carrier designs. They had one for a full-sized US submersible super-carrier, over the concern of Soviet cruise missiles. They figured a submersible carrier would be immune from nearly every form of conventional surface attack.

The Japanese I-class subs looked like large conventional submarines with a big tube on the foredeck where the single-engined floatplane was housed. To the best of my knowledge, no US carrier has housed or launched an airplane, though some were modified and tested to carry V-2-rockets launched from the aft deck. The US even had a few cruise missile submarines back in the 1950's.

Originally Posted by canadian boy

i have been told that the japanese develpoed a submersable carrier that carried 2 bombers and that the americans took the design to the next step and made it even more powerful. is it even possible these rumors may be true?

Yes , They were called the George Washington (SSBN-598) Class

Originally Posted by Gun Grape

Yes , They were called the George Washington (SSBN-598) Class

Lol, good one))

Submersible cruisers are possible too)

Hollow out an Ohio SSBN a bit and you have a nice submersible and stealthy platform for carrying, launching, and retrieving UAVs.

I'll be angry if someone in the Defense Dept. hasn't already floated this one.

-dale

Originally Posted by dalem

Hollow out an Ohio SSBN a bit and you have a nice submersible and stealthy platform for carrying, launching, and retrieving UAVs.

I'll be angry if someone in the Defense Dept. hasn't already floated this one.

-dale

Hi Dale,

You are correct indeed.

Putting cruise missles on submarines can make them de facto aircraft carriers to an extent and adding UAVs would make them more so me thinks.

when i talked about a submersablecarrier i didn't mean a missle carrier, i meant a carrier that hold a tomcat, or and F-18 or something like that, and that are short range and can be converted to bombers like the Hercules.

Originally Posted by canadian boy

when i talked about a submersablecarrier i didn't mean a missle carrier, i meant a carrier that hold a tomcat, or and F-18 or something like that, and that are short range and can be converted to bombers like the Hercules.

First of all; please learn to use the CAPS lock and use a CAPITAL letter at the beginning of every sentence.

Secondly to answer you question; probably, but why? A super carrier would have to

i) Come to the surface to launch her aircraft
ii)It would take a while for her to do that, since obviously when submerged the planes would be inside the hanger deck
iii) In the time it would take to get her ready, the surprise would have been lost.
iv)It would be F U C K I N G expensive, 30 bil not unresonable.
v) The Japanese Subs were suicide boats (almost) with the purpose being to destroy the Panama Canal.

And TH, yes the USN should not have sunk them the way they did.

Originally Posted by dalem

Hollow out an Ohio SSBN a bit and you have a nice submersible and stealthy platform for carrying, launching, and retrieving UAVs.

I'll be angry if someone in the Defense Dept. hasn't already floated this one.

-dale

We have been experimenting with SSN controlled UAVs. The first sucessful test was in 1996. (USS Chicago)

http://www.global-defence.com/1997/AirbourneRecon.html

The US Navy is interested in a marinised UAV. What was the result of naval exercises and demonstrations with the Predator UAV?

Very successful. A demonstration in June 1996 with Predator and the USS Chicago, a Los Angeles-class submarine, exceeded all expectations. Predator took off from a land-based ground-control station on San Clemente island off the Californian coast. Control of the air vehicle and its sensors was with USS Chicago, the first time a submarine has controlled a UAV.

The demonstration involved finding and eliminating a simulated enemy missile before it could be used against the US. Predator had to find it and pass the information to special operations forces (SOF) who would destroy it. There were sceptics but the US Navy accepted the challenge and agreed to the demonstration. The missile was under cover three or four times and each time it was moved Predator watched and was able to identify exactly where it was concealed and pass co-ordinates to the SOF team. SOF landed at night using the co-ordinates, visually confirmed the missile's location and went into hiding at dawn. The missile was moved again but Predator told the SOF team its new location and it was destroyed. The team fulfilled its objective because Predator supplied real-time information. Circling the target, Predator assessed the damage using infrared sensors and passed its imagery back to the submarine. This was relayed to the SOF team who returned home.

There are three stages of marinisation as defined by the navy; first, obtain information from the sensors (receipt of imagery); second, add control of the air vehicle to sensor information, and third, be able to take off and land the vehicle as well as control it and its sensors. The navy successfully demonstrated the first two stages. The first was accomplished in a composite training-unit exercise (COMPTUEX) aboard carrier USS Carl Vinson in December 1995 when Predator imagery was received, but this was controlled from a land-based ground station. The second stage was demonstrated aboard the USS Chicago in June 1996. A study was completed to determine feasibility of launching and recovering Predator from large deck, air operations-capable ships and associated costs.

The first launch of a UAV from a Sub: It had to surface:

http://www.kingsbayperiscope.com/sto...n_uav001.shtml

Submarines take on new technology

UAV launched from Albany

By JO1Jennifer Spinner, Periscope Staff
The first-ever launch of an Unmanned Aerial Vehicle from a surfaced submarine July 20 was a great success, proving the expanded utility of a technology already being used by United States Marines in Iraq.
Despite its small size, the UAV has the potential to radically expand the role of the submarine force in the Global War on Terrorism, according to Lt. Cmdr. Rob Jezek ,USS Albany (SSN 753) executive officer.
''It is exciting to be a part of this launch,'' said Jezek. ''This technology extends the submarine's reach. We already pride ourselves on being stealthy and the Advanced Tactical Recce within the UAV adds to our range of senses. It has many implications, including the ability to gather intelligence, and perform advanced reconnaissance for Special Operations Forces insertion.''
The UAV was launched from the bridge aboard Albany while the submarine was operating on the surface. The UAV is similar to the ''Dragon Eye'' Advanced Tactical Recce Monitoring Platform, or DE-ATR, used by U.S. Marines in Iraq and Afghanistan. The DE-ATR offers a great deal of power and flexibility to operators.
Weighing in at approximately five pounds, the ''Dragon Eye'' carries two color cameras and can be outfitted with chemical and biological sensors in the nose cone. The UAV also offers night-vision capabilities, especially valuable to Force Protection uses and SOF.
''In today's demonstration, USS Albany had complete control of the UAV utilizing systems within the Type 18 periscope,'' said Warren Schultz, associate superintendent of the chemistry division at Naval Research Labs.
''In a real-life scenario, a submarine could launch the UAV 20 miles off the coast while performing special operations insertion,'' said Schultz. ''The sub could maintain control of the plane and then hand it off to the Special Forces before they landed on shore. Control of the UAV is easily transferred from one operator to another.''
That ease of operation is one of the key selling points for UAV technology. According to Schultz, the UAV has a payload capacity of 12 ounces and researchers are developing lightweight zoom lenses to further improve the UAV's value and utility. The aircraft can fly at altitudes up to 10,000 feet, over a range of 40 kilometers, for approximately one hour - all on a single battery charge.
''It's quick, quiet and stealthy,'' said Christopher Povloski, Naval Research Lab program analyst and flight technician. ''During a demonstration in Yuma, Arizona, no one could see or hear it until it was right on top of us.
Although the modular UAV was designed to be a ''throw away,'' some have been flown and successfully recovered more than 30 times.
This launch follows a successful demonstration in February of the UAV's capabilities at NSB Kings Bay. A prototype UAV was launched and controlled by force protection personnel ashore to search out the waters ahead of a submarine as it entered port.
The new UAV design is ideal for stealth, due to its ultra-quiet electric motor and small size. This is part of the submarine force's future capabilities in varied payloads for joint warfighting in the Global War on Terrorism.

They are solving that problem

http://www.spacewar.com/news/2005/milplex-011105-2126-36.html[/url]

Northrop Grumman Encapsulation Technology Enables New Submarine Capability
San Diego CA (SPX) Jan 11, 2005
Northrop Grumman has successfully demonstrated a new technology, which will allow weapons and vehicles to be released from submarines even if they were not originally designed for undersea use.

During the U.S. Navy's recent Silent Hammer exercise, a simulated unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) was successfully released from a submerged submarine to the sea surface using a low-cost, disposable encapsulation system. The demonstration was conducted on board the USS Georgia off the southern coast of California.

Developed by Northrop Grumman's Electronic Systems sector, the so-called Stealthy Affordable Capsule System, or SACS, is a modular encapsulation system that enables "non-marinized" UAVs and weapons to be launched from a submerged submarine.

Without such technology, weapons and vehicles must be specifically designed to withstand underwater conditions.

"We are very pleased with the demonstration's results," said Navy Capt. (SEL) David Duryea, Silent Hammer program manager, Naval Sea Systems Command.

"New technology demonstrated during the experiment will allow the U.S. Navy's submarine force to explore the feasibility of deploying an expanded set of weapons and UAVs, while significantly reducing the cost of developing ones specific for submarine use."

During the tests, Northrop Grumman successfully completed two commanded releases of the SACS from the submarine's missile tube and demonstrated the required capsule ascent and broach dynamics to launch a UAV from the surface.

Another key achievement was that the vehicles' environments were maintained during release and travel to the surface.

"This is a major milestone in the SACS program," said Randy Yates, Northrop Grumman's Silent Hammer program manager.

"SACS offers long-term storage capability, variable release depth, as well as the ability to encapsulate off-the-shelf small and large non-marinized equipment. Additionally, it provides the ability for UAVs to launch upon surface broach or to loiter before launch, increasing operational flexibility."

The demonstrations were conducted as part of the Navy's Silent Hammer sea trial, which evaluated the potential improvements to warfare capabilities offered by a clandestine sea base of networked undersea, surface, air and ground forces.

During the exercise, joint forces conducted intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance in coordinated strike operations against a simulated enemy force on land and in a littoral battle space.

Northrop Grumman initially developed SACS with internal research and development funds. Further development of SACS is being conducted under an agreement from Naval Sea Systems Command for the Submarine Payloads and Sensors program.

The company is a member of the Team 2020 Consortium that develops and demonstrates potential new technologies to maximize future submarine effectiveness.

Originally Posted by sparten

And TH, yes the USN should not have sunk them the way they did.

Should have or not, they didn't have much choice.
It was either deep-six them or share them with the Soviets.

Originally Posted by sparten

First of all; please learn to use the CAPS lock and use a CAPITAL letter at the beginning of every sentence.

Secondly to answer you question; probably, but why? A super carrier would have to

i) Come to the surface to launch her aircraft
ii)It would take a while for her to do that, since obviously when submerged the planes would be inside the hanger deck
iii) In the time it would take to get her ready, the surprise would have been lost.
iv)It would be F U C K I N G expensive, 30 bil not unresonable.
v) The Japanese Subs were suicide boats (almost) with the purpose being to destroy the Panama Canal.

And TH, yes the USN should not have sunk them the way they did.

Actuallly there is technology that would allow for quick deployent and new stealth technology will soon be advanced enough to hide a sub that has surfaced so they will still have the element of suprise.

And don't worry about the price becasuse at 30 billion thats only a piece of the cake that america spends on their B-2 Spirit bomber at about 200 billion apiece, So you could build 20 of the subs at the price you listed for the same price of 3 B-2 Spirit bombers.