LinkBack URL
About LinkBacks
Reply With QuoteWhy is it that only six will be build. We could easily have gone for more.
Why is it that only six will be build. We could easily have gone for more.
Hala Madrid!!
Originally Posted by indianguy4u
This is a good move. only six have been ordered because it offers a lot of possibilities considering that the IN plans to have 24 of such SSKs:
1) further procurement of 6-8 SSKs from Russian (amur) or germany (type 214) or mix of german aip with russian amur (with klubs).
Who knows after about 12 of these babies are produced the Indians may be good enough to build a new type of sub based on incorporating the tech derived from these three suppliers. The remaining 12 may then be built indigenously.
2) The Scorpene has one BIG advantage over the others - the Scorpene is said to be derived from the French Rubis class SSN, this could make for converting into SSN a lot easier. Further technology fallouts of this deal for the indigenous ATV (ssn/ssbn) are also a definite bonus.
3) Even though the mesma AIP is not regarded highly by the IN, the IN may actually hook up the german AIP on the scorpene. this way both the french and the germans will be kept happy. Furthermore, german aip tech could then be used on other IN SSKs (including new buys). this way the germans remain in the loop and purchases/procurement is diversified.
Regards,
USS.
uss,
hey can u help me in understanding AIP & diff between the french & germans AIP.
Hala Madrid!!
India is definitely getting a pretty good sub fleet. What's the status with Akula and Amur sub?
uss,
hey can u help me in understanding AIP & diff between the french & germans AIP
I'm no expert at Air Independent Propulsion technology (I think Rick would be the resident expert in such matters here). However, I believe this technology has been around for some time (basically to allow a sub to stay submerged for longer periods of time, the AIP tech helps in that it provides an alternate source of power without depleting essential air reserves). Since only the top 4-5 navies in the world can afford and have access to proper nuclear tech, only they can have the beautiful SSNs which seem to go on forever without needing to refuel or surface.
Experimentation on this stuff goes way back to WW II, both the russians and germans were pioneers in this field. Of course after the war the allies tried it too. But soon nuclear propulsion was found to be a better alternative by the big powers. AIP was considered too dangerous, too much explosive stuff in cramped spaces I suppose
More recently sweden (with the stirling aip) was the first one to succeed in actually operationalizing this tech in the 90s. The germans were not too far off and with HDW and Siemens offered a "fuel cell" tech with oxygen and hydrogen (kinda sounds dangerous) but they are pretty confident. The french of course offer the MESMA (dcn's own brand of aip), which supposedly burns ethanol and oxygen to give steam for propulsion. The IN seems to prefer the german alternative to Mesma for some reason.
The Pakistani's probly will be the first navy to try out the mesma, perhaps Chile also.
Anyway thats as far as my knowledge goes on AIP tech, kinda "general" to say the least. Rick or any other more knowledgeable ones are urged to shed some light and make corrections where necessary
Regards,
USS.
thanks uss
Do u know which AIP provides better performance & what russian subs use for the same?
Hala Madrid!!
chile's scorpenes have conventional diesels,india rejected msma,because when the submarine is in the docks,the hydrigen,will have to be stored in a huge tank farm on the land(like an oil farm) near to the base,this would make both the base and the storage facility vulnerable(to a suicide attack , missile strike or terrorist attack oe even an accident)I'm no expert at Air Independent Propulsion technology (I think Rick would be the resident expert in such matters here). However, I believe this technology has been around for some time (basically to allow a sub to stay submerged for longer periods of time, the AIP tech helps in that it provides an alternate source of power without depleting essential air reserves). Since only the top 4-5 navies in the world can afford and have access to proper nuclear tech, only they can have the beautiful SSNs which seem to go on forever without needing to refuel or surface.
Experimentation on this stuff goes way back to WW II, both the russians and germans were pioneers in this field. Of course after the war the allies tried it too. But soon nuclear propulsion was found to be a better alternative by the big powers. AIP was considered too dangerous, too much explosive stuff in cramped spaces I suppose
More recently sweden (with the stirling aip) was the first one to succeed in actually operationalizing this tech in the 90s. The germans were not too far off and with HDW and Siemens offered a "fuel cell" tech with oxygen and hydrogen (kinda sounds dangerous) but they are pretty confident. The french of course offer the MESMA (dcn's own brand of aip), which supposedly burns ethanol and oxygen to give steam for propulsion. The IN seems to prefer the german alternative to Mesma for some reason.
The Pakistani's probly will be the first navy to try out the mesma, perhaps Chile also.
Anyway thats as far as my knowledge goes on AIP tech, kinda "general" to say the least. Rick or any other more knowledgeable ones are urged to shed some light and make corrections where necessary
Regards,
USS.
hydrogen is much more explosive than atf,so just imagine should any explosion take place,how disastrous it can be to both the navy and civilian areas nearby.
chile's scorpenes have conventional diesels,india rejected msma,because when the submarine is in the docks,the hydrigen,will have to be stored in a huge tank farm on the land(like an oil farm) near to the base,this would make both the base and the storage facility vulnerable(to a suicide attack , missile strike or terrorist attack oe even an accident)
hydrogen is much more explosive than atf,so just imagine should any explosion take place,how disastrous it can be to both the navy and civilian areas nearby.
i thought the danger lies with the siemens fuell cells (which require the storage of hydrogen and oxygen on land) and NOT the Mesma, which I have read works on burning liquid oxygen and ethanol for steam powered propulsion.
hmm we really need an expert here.
USS.
I know for sure Kilo doesn't have it. I think Amur could be equipped with it. What AIP basically allows diesel subs to do is to stay in the ocean for 2 weeks instead of 2 or 3 days without having to resurface. Diesel subs are generally really quiet, so that's why having AIP makes them much harder to find.thanks uss
Do u know which AIP provides better performance & what russian subs use for the same?
i think you reversed the propulsion systems(i believe siemens butns ethanol and liquid oxeygen).i thought the danger lies with the siemens fuell cells (which require the storage of hydrogen and oxygen on land) and NOT the Mesma, which I have read works on burning liquid oxygen and ethanol for steam powered propulsion.
hmm we really need an expert here.
USS.
Last edited by aaaditya; 09 Sep 05, at 18:52.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Share this thread with friends: