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Reply With QuoteWhy would USN worry for the presence of other Navy? If they hit the CV the nukes will start to lobe and we will all dieOriginally Posted by Gun Boat
So what going to happen?
In the next 20 years China is going to field a fully fledged Carrier Battle Group.
If these two countries decide to field these units in a tiny pond such as the Persian Gulf what is going to happen?
Can the USN accept another force as large as its own? What will it do in terms of readiness for the USN.
Can the PRC come to the party and play the game?
Will be a game of itchy trigger fingers.
Why would USN worry for the presence of other Navy? If they hit the CV the nukes will start to lobe and we will all die
No such thing as a good tax - Churchill
To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.
No,the nukes won't fly although many will die.
Those who know don't speak
More talking about the operational intensity that would result from two CBG operationing in close proximity. I mean, let's face it, it has not been done since WW2.
I'm thinking it would push each nations logistics to the limit. Constant intensive CAP, and also the each force would be shitting themselves inanticipation of the others moves.
the side with better subs/sub commanders win
also UAV/UCAVs, and luck
IMO, The USN would not have a problem with another CVBG (note I say CVBG) not CVNBG. The gulf and all other waters are international so there is nothing to say legally that China could not transit, drill etc in those waters. What does matter is the intentions.
As far as experience, the USN has been at this since pre WWII. They have more experience then anyone bar none. Especially China which is in its CV infancy even with Russian navy help. Russias CV's barely went to sea during the cold war and are even more scarce today.
Also keep in mind China's carriers for now are non nuclear which limits their range and will be in need of either a port to refuel or a tanker in tow since her escorts will require contant fueling. The USN CV being nuclear has unlimited range and can keep her escorts fueled as they need even if they chose to leave a tanker behind. They also have FOB's in the area and much experience sailing those waters which China does not.
As far as aerial combat or CV combat at sea goes... my choice goes with the The USN, its ships and airwings and their accumulated
experience of over 60 years hands down.
Last edited by Dreadnought; 08 Feb 12, at 16:32.
Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.
Sounds like it might be time to resurrect the Seawolf-class; we have, apparently, traded one proficient maritime adversary (Soviet Union) for another one (PRC).the side with better subs/sub commanders win
also UAV/UCAVs, and luck
"Yeah. See, we plan ahead, that way we don't do anything right now. Earl explained it to me." - Tremors, 1990
Based on the planes that the Chinese Navy plans to fly off their small deck carrier, and the state of the electronics on Chinese Navy ships compared to US ships, The Chinese don't stand a chance.
Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?
Persian Gulf?
A lot can happen in 20 years, in all aspects of this.
I could see China possibly building several refineries in Iran in trade for rights to develop oil fields, and defending those capital investments against any attack.
Near Bahrain, where they are at significant disadvantage, I would not expect them to either pick a fight or allow themselves to be baited into a fight at sea.
If China is going to flex muscles at sea, I expect they will do so within the second island chain, more probably within the first island chain where they will continue to press old claims for territorial rights.
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So if a USN carrier group and a PLAN carrier group were to be in the Persian Gulf together what would the USN be doing?
Would it be business as usual? Or would they be on high alert ready to strike if struck?
It would be a hell of a test for the PLAN and any cracks in their systems would be brought out I would think.
I would also think that it would be a media circus the first time the two groups were operating in the same area. Did the Russian carrier group ever get close to the USN?
JRT,
Agree that the waters inside the first island chain area are far more likely location for this to happen, although over the next 20 years we will probably see China try its hardest to push their A2AD envelope outwards towards the second island chain.
In the Persian Gulf, unless the relationship between Iran and China develops tremendously, the PLAN CVBG would likely be at a large disadvantage for quite some time to come due to its smaller air wing, less capable escorts, and the relatively modest state of Chinese SSN development as well as other factors already mentioned by other posters. We don't know how much this will change in the next 20 years, but I can't imagine the USN's advantages in these areas being eclipsed in that time frame.
Inside of the first island chain, the PLAN CVBG can be supported by the enormous investment in land based assets that China has made in recent years. Although that wouldn't make the PLAN carrier more capable in itself, it does make operating in that environment more complex for the USN. So really, I don't see a PLAN carrier or several of them doing much to balance of power between the USN and the PLAN, but I think this scenario would offer much more to examine if we were looking at a PLAN CVBG operating in the Indian Ocean and how that would make the Indians feel. I kind of get the sense that Chinese aircraft carriers are more about other nations than they are an attempt to challenge the USN at their own game.
Business as usual. Maybe some navigation issues that they would need to work out, but no difference in op issues. The Persian Gulf isn't exactly the most friendly body of water. They are already operating at a higher state of alert than usual.
You don't want to learn high op tempo ops in the Persian Gulf.It would be a hell of a test for the PLAN and any cracks in their systems would be brought out I would think.
It wouldn't be the Americans playing games that they need to worry about. Its some of the land based countries surrounding them that would poise a threat..
Many times. It was all part of the game during the Cold War.I would also think that it would be a media circus the first time the two groups were operating in the same area. Did the Russian carrier group ever get close to the USN?
Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?
So then at what point does Chinese carrier experience balance out against US carrier experience? For the forseeable future the Chinese would get stomped outside of home waters. What about in 30,40 or 50 years. In other words how long will it be before the main decider of who wins the engagement is luck and whoever has a better commander?
The best part of repentance is the sin
When their carriers carry the same type of assets. And those planes are comparable in capabilities.
With the size carriers they are building, thats not going to happen. They will be able to go toe to toe with other countries baby carriers.
But until they go big, they would be out of their league when going against a real carrier. The US and France don't need to sweat over the Chinese. Every one else does, In say, 10 years down the line
Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?
Assuming relatively predicable progressions in capabilities for both the PLAN and USN, the Chinese have no illusions what-so-ever that their CVBG can go up against a US CVNBG, even in 20 years. They admit that they'll still be in a work-in-progress and that they still have a long way to go across the board. IIRC, for China the golden number for modernization is 2049.
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