Current Naval Power

**ace009** · 13 Aug 11,, 15:23

Hi mates,
In another forum I participate in, a French guy has been bragging about how great French navy and it's technologies are, and how they can send an invasion fleet in IOR to take over the Andaman Islands easily.
I am not a naval expert, so I would like to know what the forum members here think about current naval powers in general and France in particular.
This is NOT intended to be a x vs y thread. I am not trying to get a "my d1ck is bigger than yours" discussion, but I would love to know whether in todays world it is possible for any navy, (except for the USN) to send an invasion fleet and take over an Indian territory, and if so, how can they do it.

**kato** · 13 Aug 11,, 16:07

Nuke Karwar, Mumbai and Vishakapatnam. Mission done.

**ace009** · 13 Aug 11,, 16:15

I said "invasion" - not mutual destruction, short of USA and Russia, I don't think any other country would like to start an offensive against India by nuking the major naval bases ...
I maybe wrong, but not crazy
:D

**USSWisconsin** · 13 Aug 11,, 16:59

It might be theoretically possible - but it would be political suicide for the organization in charge to try and take territory from a country which isn't doing anything belligerent - even more so if nukes were used. I don't think even the US or Russia could get away with it. I would think France would be even less likely to.

**kato** · 13 Aug 11,, 20:00

Well, i could imagine such an operation as a side theater in a wider conflict. Say an increased intensity conflict with China? The PLAN, while as a whole it's not geared towards projection, probably could still field a rather impressionable force into that theater provided Malaysia doesn't trouble this op in the Straits. Especially if they ever get a real carrier going.

While the PLAN can't project as many ground troops over such distances as France (!), an expedition using the Yuzhaos LPDs and possibly some Yuting I/II LSTs could be successful provided the Indian Army and Air Force is otherwise occupied and can't reinforce the islands easily.

**xinhui** · 13 Aug 11,, 21:06

completely off topic

**kato** · 13 Aug 11,, 22:10

Originally Posted by xinhui

completely off topic

Seriously?

Originally Posted by ace009

whether it is possible for any navy to send an invasion fleet and take over an Indian territory

**ace009** · 13 Aug 11,, 22:17

The discussion actually started about a possible future India-Pakistan conflict scenario, where China pitches in by attacking in the North east and sending an expeditionary force to the Andaman islands (through China built ports and railroads in Burma). The French guy at this point jumped in with the input that French navy can invade, occupy and defend the Islands easily.
I can imagine PLAN being able to do it (however unlikely)- although it might not be easy for them - and the benefit (control of a part of the major shipping routes through Indian Ocean) might well be offset by the loss of naval vessels as well as political milage.
But, French Navy, doing the same, with a >10,000 mile supply line from France or a ~5000 mile supply line from Reunion - is that "easy" or possible?

**kato** · 13 Aug 11,, 22:34

Originally Posted by ace009

But, French Navy, doing the same, with a >10,000 mile supply line from France or a ~5000 mile supply line from Reunion - is that "easy" or possible?

India and France regularly hold the joint "Varuna" exercise in the Indian Ocean, a full symmetric naval warfare exercise with carrier operations, maritime interdiction, ASW operations etc. The Varuna 10 exercise last January involved both the CdG carrier battle group and the Viraat carrier battle group, along with Indian SSKs and French SSNs.

France has projected its carrier group, occasionally with attached amphibious ships, into the Indian Ocean several times for this exercise series. The CdG group in the last decade or so has spent on average 2-3 months every year in the Indian Ocean, both for the Varuna maneuver series as well as for actual combat operations, usually long-range strike operations in Afghanistan.

For a serious projection of amphibious forces the question would be how much support France would get from MSSC, the joint European sealift group. Without MSSC, the second and third wave of ground forces would be limited to only the three RoRos that France contributes to it. With full MSSC involvement France could pretty much move half its army in the wake of the carrier group...

**Dreadnought** · 13 Aug 11,, 23:12

Now that would be a good trick...France invading anyone? Ask this person exactly when was the last time France invaded anyone that could equally defend itself. Make sure you state France and not France being a part of NATO forces. I would be interested in his answer.

**xinhui** · 13 Aug 11,, 23:13

Originally Posted by kato

Seriously?

The thread started with France in particular, is it not?

**xinhui** · 13 Aug 11,, 23:18

The discussion actually started about a possible future India-Pakistan conflict scenario, where China pitches in by attacking in the North east and sending an expeditionary force to the Andaman islands (through China built ports and railroads in Burma).

Lets not go there...... WAB can use less flame.

**kato** · 13 Aug 11,, 23:26

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Ask this person exactly when was the last time France invaded anyone that could equally defend itself.

Last March. Before that probably Operation Daguet in '91.

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Make sure you state France and not France being a part of NATO forces.

French Forces have not operated as part of NATO since 1966. Unlike those guys on the islands that always tend to back down when big brother is involved De Gaulle really took exception to the USA almost declaring war on them over sending some carriers and battleships to invade someone and gradually removed France from NATO structures over the next ten years.

**Doktor** · 13 Aug 11,, 23:37

Operation Daguet is french way of saying Dessert Storm.

Last March?

Take a look at the French operations (except in Africa) in the last 20 years and tell when they were operating alone.

As for your comments about the Brits, there was a funny reply in a movie that the only time Brits let the Americans alone was Vietnam and they lost

**kato** · 13 Aug 11,, 23:42

Originally Posted by Doktor

Take a look at the French operations (except in Africa) in the last 20 years and tell when they were operating alone.

Ah, but it wasn't about alone, it was about "as part of NATO"

And i'm not aware of a single operation other than Afghanistan in which France has operated as part of NATO or under any sort of NATO command. Ever. Then again the same goes for the USA really.