G.G,Originally Posted by Gun Grape
Many refer to the Andamans as the biggest aircrat carrier so far any Navy has.
And on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...
Hmm, Not so sure diving on the Enterprise would have been such a good idea. The Big "E" might be a bit older then her contemporaries but her escorts are yet quite modern. Also the CV's were built with lessons learned from WWII attacks in mind particularly in protecting the hangar bays with much improved flight deck structure.
Last edited by Dreadnought; 22 Aug 11, at 14:02.
Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.
Dreadnought
correct me if I'm wrong but in 1971 the uss enterprise was the most modern nuclear powered carrier in us navy.
J'ai en marre.
Actually there were two ships even newer in the fleet. You had USS America CVA 66 in commision since 1965 and You also had USS John F. Kennedy CVA-67 in commision since 1968. Although neither of these two were nuclear powered they were newer.
USS Enterprise was the first nuke powered carrier in commision in 1965 but she was also older then these two. These two were multi purpose CV's.
To give you an idea of their "toughness"
USS America CVA-66
Fate: Decommissioned and stricken on 9 August 1996. Sunk in the Atlantic Ocean, off the Virginia coast, on 14 May 2005, after 25 days of tests consisting of underwater and surface simulated attacks on the ship. These tests were intended to provide valuable data on survivability for the next generation of aircraft carriers.
According to the December 4, 2006 issue of "Navy Times," ex-America was in one piece and sitting on its keel, some 476 miles east of Charleston, SC, and about 400 miles west of Bermuda, and 16,860 feet (5,139 meters) below the surface. This information was obtained by the USS America Carrier Veterans Association on October 30, through a Freedom of Information Act request.
Even their armor scheme was listed as "unknown" although there are many that "volunteered" numbers but nothing ever confirmed. And she was struck with weapons that were decades newer then her own design and protection.
In 1971 the Naval World was just barely coming into the missle and jet age and few militarys possesed state of the art tech. I cannot say for sure but I dont think India was one of them.
Last edited by Dreadnought; 22 Aug 11, at 17:16.
Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.
thanks for the detailed answer
Is there any way to find out in what consisted her batlegroup than?
I know that there must have bean a missile cruiser, few destroyers and several frigates and possibly a attack submarine in it ,but I'm interested in the exact class of vessels they were (not necessary their name).
J'ai en marre.
REALLY? IN/ IAF was attempting an assault against the USS Enterprise and her CBG? That would be really stupid and desperate. Looking at the capabilities of IAF/ IN, I would say highly unlikely too.
It might just be some more CIA BS created to make the Indians look like "the bastards" (as Kissinger had said), in the 1970s. You know that Nixon sent the USS Enterprise and her CBG to Bay of Bengal in support of Pakistan, so that they can keep on with the genocide of their then countrymen in East Pakistan and send off the surviving Hindus, Christians, Bengali Intellectuals into India.
Ace o Spades in Ninth Hell
We would have to establish a timeline of when the Indians "thought" they could do this.
My reasoning is that Enterprise (if we are still discussing her) was supporting Vietnam Forces at the time and was constantly on the move having a fire aboard, repairs, home waters and South China Sea voyage, etc. What we would need is an approximate date (year) the Indians would have attempted this to know what her battlegroup consisted of and if she was even at sea at the time. Not many pictures that span 1969-1976 for the Big "E" on record and would more then likely come from pics taken from her escorts or pics taken by sailors aboard.
If you can find a date, then a timeframe can be established and then ships in her grouping and her location.
Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.
Dec 71 ?
Task Force 74 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The thing I find odd is that: there are no guided missile cruisers in the task-force according to
Blechman, B.M.; Kaplan, S.S. (1978), Force Without War: U.S. Armed Forces as a Political Instrument
which is used as a reference.
J'ai en marre.
On Yankee Station, Oriskany, Constellation and Enterprise provided 22 two-carrier days on the line during November 1971, delivering 1,766 ordnance-bearing strike sorties, twelve and nine of them into North Vietnam and South Vietnam respectively. Two reconnaissance missions were flown during the month, with the airfield at Vinh the mission assignment. Escort aircraft on both missions expended ordnance in a protective reaction role against firing antiaircraft artillery sites near the field. Other protective reaction strikes were executed.
JUN 1971 - FEB 1972 West Pac. This is from her log.
Location: Indian Ocean (for about three weeks) until sometime in January 1972 and then on to Subic and then Pearl.
http://navysite.de/cruisebooks/cvn65-71/162.htm
From the very same Cruisebook the ships she sailed with at one point or another during that time period.
http://navysite.de/cruisebooks/cvn65-71/160.htm
The majority of those are DD's which supplied very good if not better AA fire for the carriers in past conflicts.
According to this site which details the Indian AF at the time 48% of their aircraft were lost to AA fire on land.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Hi...Appendix2.html
It is widely known from WWII, Korea how good the USN was at AA fire at sea. IMO, this was not going to happen. Attack yes, succeed in sinking, doubfull and the cost..................
Then consider the armament of some of those ships (some even DDG) carrying SAM and Terriers along with alot of gunfire and then the CV herself, not just her airwings.
Last edited by Dreadnought; 22 Aug 11, at 21:13.
Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.
Thanks for the link , are those two A5 Vigilante in the picture of Enterprise deck ?
USS Enterprise (CVAN 65) WestPac Cruise Book 1971-72 - WestPac Cruise
J'ai en marre.
Yes, she carried nine A-5's on deck in this picture taken in 1964.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/1109/04010914.jpg
Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.
Didn't say the French would be able to pull it off. Just that if any European Navy could, it would be the French.G.G,
Many refer to the Andamans as the biggest aircrat carrier so far any Navy has.
Question related to modern naval powers. The cost of a modern Nimitz class ship is listed at approximately $5 billion. The cost of the Charles de Gaulle is listed at slight less as $4.5 billion. My question is how much cheaper would the Charles de Gaulle cost vs a Nimitz if it was a part of a multi-ship program like the Nimitz class at a yard which has built many of the same class before?
The Charles de Gaulle has less then half of the displacement of a Nimitz, but isn't that much shorter or wider, so I was just curious what the cost savings would be for a ship that can embark less than half of the air wing that the Nimitz can.
As always, your thoughts/ideas/comments are appreciated.
Like I said, the first we've heard about this was an Indian Army Captain. Whether true or not, it is a good intellectual exercise to imagine what was needed, what could be done, ... and what could be dared.
Chimo
Remember that that figure includes ~20% VAT though.
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