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Reply With Quotemhmm...While this does not have the best pictures this dose give a good idea on some of the interior spaces onboard the Kidd - USS KIDD Veterans Memorial -- Ship Virtual Tour
Originally Posted by Gun Grape
GG, those pictures on the Sumner Class really illustrate how close quarters are in a Fletcher.
The crew on the Farraguts were smitten with the "big 2100 tonners" as the Fletcher DD had interior passage ways from fore to aft. The crew on the USS Dale had to climb up on deck to enter another section of the ship, especially the crews mess.
mhmm...While this does not have the best pictures this dose give a good idea on some of the interior spaces onboard the Kidd - USS KIDD Veterans Memorial -- Ship Virtual Tour
Another example of backing up far enough to frame a shot inside a Fletcher DD. A wide angle lense is certainly required.....
The Shower - Psycho (5/12) Movie CLIP (1960) HD - YouTube
whoops, wrong thread....sorry
Last edited by blidgepump; 18 Jun 12, at 20:52.
Another weekend of quiet reading and a recital by Earl "Jitterbug" Pearson, Machinist Mate, USS Dale, January 31, 1942, offered the following.....
"To enter ( the fireroom) it we had to open one airtight hatch, climb into a pressure chamber, close and secure the hatch, open a second hatch, climb into the fire room, and then secure that hatch. Both hatches could not be opened at the same time because the pressure would be lost and the fire would flair back and burn us up. We were literally sealed in!" ( et.al., Fletcher, Gearing, etc.. Class DD's)
In the book "No Higher Honor", the one about saving the USS Samuel B. Roberts, ( in lieu of the book by CONDOLEEZZA RICE's service in Washington) the Perry class frigate struck a mine that jetted hot gases into the main engine room, 14 April 1988. There is no mention of the room being pressurized.
It is assumed that the need to have a positive atmosphere in the fire room was the need to burn navy crude using the FD fans. Did the pressurized fireroom ( Even with "Condition Zebra" set) vanish with the modern navy? ( i.e. "turn the key and start the engine [GE gas turbine] )
Last edited by blidgepump; 20 Jun 12, at 14:34.
I think the guy's memory is playing tricks on him.... either that or mine is. I went into the firerooms of the USS Orleck (Gearing Class) a couple of times in 1963 and then again in 1981. It's a hatch with a scuttle and vertical ladder leading into the space. The engine rooms have a hatch with a scuttle and ladder that tilts at around 30 degrees (A guess).
Doesn't feel much different in the fireroom when they're steaming except maybe the heat. If you climb the ladder, open the scuttle and stand in the middle of it, you can feel the air rushing past you, but that's only because of the pressure difference. Not much different than opening all the upstair windows, the front door, and then stand at the bottom of the stairs.
"...the pressure would be lost and the fire would flair back and burn us up"
I don't understand that comment either. The fires are in the boiler and it's pressurized. It's not like there's an open pit in the middle of the fireroom.
On the gas turbine jobbies, the turbines are in "Modules," enclosed spaces.
The older ships had pressurized firerooms. That was the way it worked with the older style boilers. The forced draft fans discharged directly into the fireroom spaces. The pressure then fed the fires and kept the draft blowing up the funnels. Hence the need for air locks. The pressure was rather low, one or two inches of water if memory serves me correctly. I'll have to remember which book that is in and look it up.
If one gets a chance to walk around the lower levels of the Queen Mary, the remnants of the air locks for passing between the individual firerooms are still visible. There is also a part of one left just below an E-Deck entrance to either #3 or #4 fireroom. Don't ask me how I know this.
The later classes of ships, and I don't know the break point, had the forced draft blowers connected directly to the boiler casings. The Fletchers and later classes all had this design. With that sort of set-up only the boiler casing and firebox were under pressure.
Aboard the Lane Victory the forced draft blowers draw their air directly from the engine room itself. The air they consume is actually figured into the over all ventilation plan for the engine room. Their consumption of warm/hot engine room air causes fresh air from the outside to be drawn in. One can really feel the draft if standing near an open port or hatch.
I have never worked aboard a gas turbine ship but have read about them. As Ytlas stated the turbines themselves are housed in individual casings. Intake air and exhaust gases are routed directly to and from the enclosures. The engine spaces are not pressureized in any way (that I know of).
The book about saving Samuel B. Roberts sounds great. I will have to find and read that one.
SharkPilot,
Thanks for the follow up!
Without have access to the engine room it leaves only recitals to answer questions and provide points of information that have " I was there.." experiences. As the Kidd is the only Fletcher I've toured ( no engine room access ) the planning to inspect The Sullivans and Cassin Young will include contacting the organizations who oversee the ships to gain permission for a "Special Tour".and I don't mean the "short bus" as the kids down the street refer to the use of the word "special".
The ventilator's on a SS vs. DD and the equipment to force air out of the engine room makes sense, it's just I've never had the exposure.
As for the reading list, the folks on this thread have libraries that can provide months of enjoyment. Even a few "authors" for technical papers contribute, too. "No Higher Honor" was a quick read and presented the Perry's as a good ship with a good crew.
Last edited by blidgepump; 21 Jun 12, at 20:07.
THis illustration fron the "No Higher Honor" book authored by Bradley Peniston shows the impact of the mine that the USS Samuel B Robert struck in 1988.
It would appear that since the design of the MO8 mine has not had a significant change since its invention for Czar Nicholas the destructive effect would of been similar to a Fletcher DD?
Last edited by blidgepump; 22 Jun 12, at 21:07.
"USS Halligan continued her offshore patrols 26 March 1945.
At about 18:35 a tremendous explosion rocked the ship, sending smoke and debris 200 feet in the air. The destroyer had hit a moored mine head on, exploding the forward magazines and blowing off the forward section of the ship including the bridge, back to the forward stack."
In the case of a Fletcher Class DD or the larger Perry Class FFG, thin skinned vessels stand little chance of sustaining a mine hit.
Where as the larger double hulled super tankers seem to lay heavy enough in the water to resist damage. NOte that the FFG followed the Heavy supertankers when the mines were suspected.
The impact of striking a mine damages a ship more by the "gas bubble" lifting a ship to break her back than the metal fragments of the shell casing according to the final report citing the significant damage from the gases entering the Roberts's engine room. The report continued to note that the exhaust ventilator was the prime route for the gases to escape the engine room and played a significant part in the surrounding bulkheads not failing completely.
Further..
Reading the analysis of the damage report to the USS Samuel B. Roberts FFG-58 ( Circa 1988), the impression of this low tech rather cheap to produce weapon is to damage a ship or at least bend it, rather than create an event that sinks the ship outright, thus diverting the resources of a ship to defend itself. A point made very well in CDR Paul Rinn's account....
Last edited by blidgepump; 26 Jun 12, at 04:05. Reason: Clear up earlier statement.....
... more reading, this time the "Stories of USS Strong ", sunk by a Long Lance IJN torpedo
"Lt.(jg) Curran, the gunnery officer, states that just as Strong completed the bombardment of Bairoko and was turning to course 000 degrees, he looked to port and saw the phosphorescent wale of a torpedo headed for Strong. He switched to the JA circuit and yelled “Left . . . .” The words “full rudder” were masked by the explosion."
Quote from "Earl Jitterbug" Pearson, Machinist Mate, USS Dale....
"Inside the fireroom was a maze of pipes covered with asbestos insulation. Our boilers burned bunker crude, which is the crudest form of petroleum there is. To get that crude to burn in had to be superheated, atomized and then sprayed under pressure into the burning chamber.
The fire room drew air down from the main deck with big blowers. so there was always a big wind blowing. Brother, we had asbestos blowing everywhere. But you got use to all that after a while."
Inlet vents illustrated in the attached jpeg.
Last edited by blidgepump; 29 Jun 12, at 21:10.
You mean asbestos is bad? Seriously, sailors have been known to wrap rags around things like insulation if it was causing dust and then secure with twine or tape. Dust is dust.
Did a bit of research on Fletcher class and the fuel goes from the storage tanks to the fuel oil heaters, purifier, fuel oil service pumps, then past saturated steam and superheated steam manifold before being atomized. The fuel oil heater ran off aux steam, most likely 150# (365 degrees) because later in the article it mentioned that the oil shouldn't get higher than "150 S.S.U." because it would cause extra wear on the internals of the fuel oil service pump.
On more modern ships you had 150# atomizing steam lines which mixed with the fuel oil just before going into the burners. Much better than running fuel around saturated steam (495 degrees) and superheated steam (850 degrees) manifolds.
What, he didn't mention the whine of the forced draft blowers? They're turbines that provide air for combustion and boiler coolling.
Salty,
Thank you for the recital which paints a very straight forward picture of the path taken by navy crude in a Fletcher DD.
Your research provides the opportunity to follow up on a passage recently read addressing a technique of filling empty fuel storage tanks with sea water as ballast.
The curse was residual sea water making un desirable sludge and fouling the ????? pumps.. ?? purifier..??? What I am not clear on is location that the fouling occurred.
If the crude is pumped from the storage tanks to the fuel oil heaters then there must be in line screens to catch the contaminated fuel?But the crude would be to vicous to screen?
But the navy crude is so thick the fuel oil hearter would separate the water from the crude before arriving at the pumps... so where did the contaminated fuel cause the problem?
I didn't mean for this to be such a long question... but your research begged for more information.
Wasn't it the USS Spence that didn't want to ballast their tanks with saltwater and they floundered?Salty,
Thank you for the recital which paints a very straight forward picture of the path taken by navy crude in a Fletcher DD.
Your research provides the opportunity to follow up on a passage recently read addressing a technique of filling empty fuel storage tanks with sea water as ballast.
The curse was residual sea water making un desirable sludge and fouling the ????? pumps.. ?? purifier..??? What I am not clear on is location that the fouling occurred.
If the crude is pumped from the storage tanks to the fuel oil heaters then there must be in line screens to catch the contaminated fuel?
But the navy crude is so thick the fuel oil hearter would separate the water from the crude before arriving at the pumps... so where did the contaminated fuel cause the problem?
I didn't mean for this to be such a long question... but your research begged for more information.
Actually your question would be better answered by someone who worked on pumps like a Marine Machinist.
However, at this link
Main Propulsion Plant DD445 and 692 Classes and Converted Types, Operation Manual - Section VIII
starting on the bottom of page 113, should answer part of your question
Salty,
I've been slooowly working my way through the recital. Excellent reading for a flatlander! More questions to follow.
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