Destroyers - Fletcher Class

**Ytlas** · 12 Jun 12,, 14:14

Originally Posted by blidgepump

Where boilers full of water to prevent scaling?

The next question addresses the comment by Schnabel...

"You ( McIntyre) take care of the fire and I'll ( Schnabel) take care of the water and then he opened the drain valves the warm water straight into the bilges" "Instead of pumping water overboard".
So if I understand, the Fireman simply opend a valve on the boiler and dumped the water on the deck of the fire room and the water ran down to the bilge?

Was this effort to heat a smaller amount of water and create steam quicker?

I found this passage very interesting as the quoted 140-minute process to make operating steam was reduced to 19-minutes.Talk about a "hot start"

I wasn't a boiler tech. I don't understand some of that dialog. As far as I know the steam drum (on top of the boiler) has to maintain a certain water level before and during steaming. Feed water comes in one side, goes down through the holes in the bottom of it, circulates, and then saturated steam comes out the top of it and goes to the superheater. The boiler is just a large firebox with bricks on the deck with the steam drum on top. I don't think I'd like to be around if the steam drum was empty or not full to capacity and there were fires in the boiler.

There are a number of burners on the side of a boiler. If you want more steam you light more burners.

In most cases the base of the boilers stand in the bilges so everything dumped doesn't have far to travel. The Iowa Class boilers are one level above the bilges so you can walk underneath them.

Most of the time the ships should have had at least one boiler lit and running because you need power to the ship service turbo generators for electricity and hot water among other things.

**Gun Grape** · 12 Jun 12,, 14:55

Originally Posted by blidgepump

Still on the prowl for more FLetcher DD information.

There was a series of B & W feature films produced by Time in 1951.

The theme covers the war in the Pacific. Quite a bit of newsreel and Combat Film are drawn upon.

In one 43-minute segment, the narrator recites that the guns on a Fletcher DD became so heated that the crew paused to cool them down with a fire hose.

The film shows a 5-man team manning a fire hose and forcing water down the barrel of the 51 mount.

Question .... did the narrator know what he was talking about.... or was this just dramatic license?

What movie is this? Do you have a link?

**Gun Grape** · 12 Jun 12,, 15:08

A video I found that should make a few happy.

It has both a Fletcher and the Wisconsin. Filmed from the deck of the BB it shows the USS Halsey Powell (sporting MS-21) conducting underway refueling. Then some glamour shots at the end. Notice how that "Atlantic Bow" handles those pacific waves.

**blidgepump** · 13 Jun 12,, 02:46

Originally Posted by Gun Grape

What movie is this? Do you have a link?

GG: The film was available through Netflix

Title- Crusade in the Pacific: America At War Episode # 15 of 24 Produced by Time in 1951

**blidgepump** · 13 Jun 12,, 03:09

Originally Posted by Ytlas

I wasn't a boiler tech. I don't understand some of that dialog. As far as I know the steam drum (on top of the boiler) has to maintain a certain water level before and during steaming. Feed water comes in one side, goes down through the holes in the bottom of it, circulates, and then saturated steam comes out the top of it and goes to the superheater. The boiler is just a large firebox with bricks on the deck with the steam drum on top. I don't think I'd like to be around if the steam drum was empty or not full to capacity and there were fires in the boiler.

There are a number of burners on the side of a boiler. If you want more steam you light more burners.

In most cases the base of the boilers stand in the bilges so everything dumped doesn't have far to travel. The Iowa Class boilers are one level above the bilges so you can walk underneath them.

Most of the time the ships should have had at least one boiler lit and running because you need power to the ship service turbo generators for electricity and hot water among other things.

Salty,

The passage indicates that the USS Dale was the "duty ship" on Saturday, December 6, 1941 and supplied power ( electrical ??) to the other three Farragut DD in the "nest". So it appears that the DD's took turns supply power . Maybe that is something ships due when they "nest"?

I will throw out this question to anyone... "Do US Naval ships "nest" in modern times?

**SharkPilot** · 13 Jun 12,, 05:21

I was a volunteer fireman-water tender aboard the SS Lane Victory for a few years. When a boiler is idle it should be filled with water all the way up to the air cock on top of the steam drum. That prevents rust and scale from forming. When lighting off, the water level has to be lowered to the working level, about the center of the steam drum. On our ship we would usually lower the level by opening the bottom blow valve and the water would drain overboard through the skin valve. Draining it to the bilges would work too but then it gets oily and becomes hazardous waste.
Hope this helps a little.

**Ken_NJ** · 13 Jun 12,, 14:13

Bildgepump... curious if there will be any more of the 'tour' of the the Fletcher class? We seemed to have covered the majority of the exterior of the upper deck. Are there any interior upper deck spaces that would be of interest besides the bridge?

What about below deck spaces? I have been on the Massachusetts and the New Jersey, although it is great to see what they have open to the public. Those spaces that are not open to the public seem to be places that I would like to see the most. Steering room, brig, foc'sle, engineering spaces, etc.

**Albany Rifles** · 13 Jun 12,, 14:25

Originally Posted by Gun Grape

What movie is this? Do you have a link?

Was it an episode of Victory at Sea?

**Gun Grape** · 13 Jun 12,, 16:09

Originally Posted by Ken_NJ

Bildgepump... curious if there will be any more of the 'tour' of the the Fletcher class? We seemed to have covered the majority of the exterior of the upper deck. Are there any interior upper deck spaces that would be of interest besides the bridge?

What about below deck spaces? I have been on the Massachusetts and the New Jersey, although it is great to see what they have open to the public. Those spaces that are not open to the public seem to be places that I would like to see the most. Steering room, brig, foc'sle, engineering spaces, etc.

How about this link.

Its the interior spaces of a Sumner.

The Sumner class was an "Improved Fletcher" Built on the same hull. The Gun mounts were changed and they got twin rudders.

NavSource Destroyer Sumner Class Interior Photographs

**blidgepump** · 14 Jun 12,, 03:30

Originally Posted by SharkPilot

I was a volunteer fireman-water tender aboard the SS Lane Victory for a few years. When a boiler is idle it should be filled with water all the way up to the air cock on top of the steam drum. That prevents rust and scale from forming. When lighting off, the water level has to be lowered to the working level, about the center of the steam drum. On our ship we would usually lower the level by opening the bottom blow valve and the water would drain overboard through the skin valve. Draining it to the bilges would work too but then it gets oily and becomes hazardous waste.
Hope this helps a little.

Shark,

Thank s for the follow up!

I would imagine that was interesting duty on the Lane Victory. Certainly there won't be many want ads in this Sunday's Paper for a Fireman / Water Tender.

Reading the passage in the Tin Can book, it is assumed that one could lower the water in the boiler faster
a) than pumping overboard?
b) took fewer crew to accomplish the task?

Sounds messy dumping water into the bilge without motavation, but 8 AM , Sunday December 7 was plently of motavation.

**blidgepump** · 14 Jun 12,, 03:34

Originally Posted by Albany Rifles

Was it an episode of Victory at Sea?

NetFlix is the only location I have viewed the film produced by Time.
Still scouring for a Weblink....

**blidgepump** · 14 Jun 12,, 03:41

Originally Posted by Ken_NJ

Bildgepump... curious if there will be any more of the 'tour' of the the Fletcher class? We seemed to have covered the majority of the exterior of the upper deck. Are there any interior upper deck spaces that would be of interest besides the bridge?

What about below deck spaces? I have been on the Massachusetts and the New Jersey, although it is great to see what they have open to the public. Those spaces that are not open to the public seem to be places that I would like to see the most. Steering room, brig, foc'sle, engineering spaces, etc.

Ken,

I have a few poorly framed pictures of the Kidd below decks.
It is hard to tell what you are looking at without some imagination. Perhaps a little photoshop will help them. The next time I am in Boston time will be taken to view the DD on display, too.

As with most retired warships getting into the really special spots is not possible.

I have taken the NJ and Massachusetts tours and rate them high on the ships to see.
Battle ship Cove is neat, bu t getting to roam all over the BB ( Engine Room and view the shaft counters) was extra special.

**SharkPilot** · 14 Jun 12,, 05:53

Originally Posted by blidgepump

Shark,

Thank s for the follow up!

I would imagine that was interesting duty on the Lane Victory. Certainly there won't be many want ads in this Sunday's Paper for a Fireman / Water Tender.

Reading the passage in the Tin Can book, it is assumed that one could lower the water in the boiler faster
a) than pumping overboard?
b) took fewer crew to accomplish the task?

Sounds messy dumping water into the bilge without motavation, but 8 AM , Sunday December 7 was plently of motavation.

It was indeed a very rewarding experience aboard Lane Victory. I got to meet and work with a lot of WWII veterans that had the patience to teach me a life long dream.

A destroyer's plant is much different than the Lane Victory's systems but the principals are the same. We can light off our boilers with one person. The engine room can be operated with two people for short periods. There are normally three on watch.
It seems like it took about 10 minutes to lower the water level. The delay is probably caused by the air cock. That's the only way to get air into the boiler as the water drains and it's quite small. Once the burners are lit the air cock is left open until steam is whistling out. That assures that any air that was in there has been displaced by the steam. Air doesn't belong in the system once it's steaming.

We always had hours of lead time to light off our plant. I am quite sure we could speed up the process considerably if bombs and torpedos were falling around us. We lit only one burner at a time to heat the boiler slowly and evenly. In a hurry all three could be lit but the boiler wouldn't be too happy about it. Beats sinking though.

It's an honor to be able to contribute, even a tiny bit, to this site. I have read and learned a lot from all of you guys.
Jim

**blidgepump** · 14 Jun 12,, 13:44

The DE thread arrived at a topic addressing smoke generators....

Tales from a Tin Can has many references addressing Smoke Generators.
One recently added to the DE thread addressed the shape, material used and location of the generators.

The Impact of using the generators on a DD is expanded upon by the following two recitals:

First, Ernest Schnabel, Fireman, USS Dale... "As Oil King, my job was to keep the ship trim. During the Battle of Komandorski, we were burning oil like mad, not only because we were running hard from the Japs, but becuase we were also laying a smoke screen to hide the Salt Lake City, which was under intense enemy gunfire. My job as oil king was to keep the ship trim by pumping oil from tank to tank so the levels would stay equal."

Second, Ernest "Dutch" Smith, Coxswain, USS Dale ... "The Ship had been turned pitch black from the smoke we had been laying to protect the Salt Lake City. I mean you could have grab a handful of that soot off the railing and used it for shoe polish".

**blidgepump** · 14 Jun 12,, 14:47

Warren Deppe, Torpedoman, USS Dale in the Battle of Komandorski Island, "Tales of a Tin Can" recites the following....

"I was on Number 1 torpedo tube and the gun director was running the numbers and angles for a possible torpedo attack. Then I got orders to go back and start the smoke generators on the fantail. Down in the engine room they sprayed bunker crude under pressure onto a superheated plate, and that made a real thick blanket of smoke. On the fantail we used two kinds of generators that mixed two kinds of chemicals together for a thick white smoke."
Warren Deppe's War Diary entry 1044 hrs, 23 March 1943

Elco made a smoke generator which produced a white smoke.... a benefit of Prohibition " the rest of the story "

"To this end, Patterson employed the help of his chemist friend Harold Levy (the chemist who also invented Cellophane, among other significant chemical inventions), to perfect the chemical formulas already developed by Patterson years ago while Patterson worked on refining the apparatuses necessary to the smoke production system. Within a matter of months, the two had refined the smoke screen system used by Patterson during his rum running days, and the invention was presented to the government during several demonstrations, some of which were accomplished with the help of Andrew Higgins, a close friend and business associate of Patterson who, during prohibition, had built Patterson's rum running fleet according to Patterson's unique designs."

Thread: Destroyers - Fletcher Class

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display

Netflix.......

What is "nesting" and how does it work ??? .....

Full Boiler.... no scale!

Been checking YouTube....

Below decks......

Smoke generators.....

Type of smoke .... and Prohibition

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

Similar Threads

WWII Destroyers

Iowa Class vs Kirov Class

Modernized Iowa Class versus Essex WWII Carrier Class

What Should the Next Gen Destroyers....

Kidd Class vs Sovremmeney Class

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions