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Thread: Russian Subs Patrolling Off East Coast of U.S.

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    Senior Contributor tim52's Avatar
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    Russian Subs Patrolling Off East Coast of U.S.

    Russian Subs Patrolling Off East Coast of U.S.

    By MARK MAZZETTI and THOM SHANKER
    Published: August 4, 2009

    WASHINGTON — A pair of nuclear-powered Russian attack submarines has been patrolling off the eastern seaboard of the United States in recent days, a rare mission that has raised concerns inside the Pentagon and intelligence agencies about a more assertive stance by the Russian military.
    The episode has echoes of the cold war era, when the United States and the Soviet Union regularly parked submarines off each other’s coasts to steal military secrets, track the movements of their underwater fleets — and be poised for war.

    But the collapse of the Soviet Union all but eliminated the ability of the Russian Navy to operate far from home ports, making the current submarine patrols thousands of miles from Russia more surprising for military officials and defense policy experts.

    “I don’t think they’ve put two first-line nuclear subs off the U.S. coast in about 15 years,” said Norman Polmar, a naval historian and submarine warfare expert.

    The submarines are of the Akula class, a counterpart to the Los Angeles class attack subs of the United States Navy, and not one of the larger submarines that can launch intercontinental nuclear missiles.

    According to Defense Department officials, one of the Russian submarines remained in international waters on Tuesday about 200 miles off the coast of the United States. The location of the second remained unclear. One senior official said the second submarine traveled south in recent days toward Cuba, while another senior official with access to reports on the surveillance mission said it had sailed away in a northerly direction.

    The Pentagon and intelligence officials spoke anonymously to describe the effort to track the Russian submarines, which has not been publicly announced.

    President Obama spoke by telephone with President Dmitri A. Medvedev of Russia on Tuesday, but it was not clear whether the subject of the submarines came up, although another source of friction between the two countries did. Mr. Medvedev called Mr. Obama to wish him a happy birthday and the White House said the president used the opportunity to urge Russia to work through diplomatic channels to resolve rising tensions with Georgia.

    The submarine patrols come as Moscow tries to shake off the embarrassment of the latest failed test of the Bulava missile, a long-range weapon that was test fired from a submarine in the Arctic on July 15. The failed missile test was the sixth since 2005, and some experts see Russia’s assertiveness elsewhere as a gambit by the military to prove its continued relevance.

    “It’s the military trying to demonstrate that they are still a player in Russian political and economic matters,” Mr. Polmar said.

    One of the submarines is the newer Akula II, officials said, which is quieter than the older variant and the most advanced in the Russian fleet. The Akula is capable of carrying torpedoes for attacking other submarines and surface vessels as well as missiles for striking targets on land and at sea.

    Defense Department officials declined to speculate on which weapons might be aboard the two submarines.

    While the submarines have not taken any provocative action beyond their presence outside territorial waters of the United States, officials expressed wariness over the Kremlin’s motivation for ordering such an unusual mission.
    “Anytime the Russian Navy does something so out of the ordinary it is cause for worry,” said a senior Defense Department official who has been monitoring reports on the submarines’ activities.

    The official said the Navy was able to track the submarines as they made their way through international waters off the American coastline. This can be done from aircraft, ships, underwater sensors or other submarines.

    “We’ve known where they were, and we’re not concerned about our ability to track the subs,” the official added. “We’re concerned just because they are there.”

    Once among the world’s most powerful forces, the Russian Navy now has very few ships regularly deployed on the open seas. Moscow has contributed warships to the international armada searching for Somali pirates. In addition, a flotilla of Russian warships participated in exercises with Venezuela last year.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride.

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    Senior Contributor Rumrunner's Avatar
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    I knew there was a reason the Perry Class was still on commission....Congrats to the Russian Navy on sending a boat over here that didnt sink, have a meltdown and/or poison it's crew enroute
    You know JJ, Him could do it....

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    Professor (retired) Senior Contributor Merlin's Avatar
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    It's just routine, says a senior Russian general.

    Putin likes to show his muscles, as well as Russia's.

    Russia Calls Submarine Patrols Off East Coast 'Routine'
    [WashingtonPost] MOSCOW, Aug. 5 -- A senior Russian general on Wednesday brushed off American concerns about two Russian submarines spotted off the East Coast of the United States, saying the patrols were routine and suggesting that the U.S. Navy carried out similar missions near Russia. ....

    Moscow often deployed its submarines off the American coast during the Cold War, but the collapse of the Soviet Union left the Russian military in shambles. Now the Russian navy rarely takes on missions far from its home ports.

    The presence of the two nuclear-powered attack submarines in international waters near the U.S. coast, first reported by the New York Times, suggests a more assertive Russian military posture and follows Moscow's decision two years ago to resume Cold War-style flights of nuclear-capable bombers across the Atlantic.

    Asked at a news conference about the submarines, Nogovitsyn drew a comparison to the resumption of the long-range bomber missions. "This is our right. We got tired of flying circles on our routes and started strategic flights," he said. .....

    Lt. James Desmond, a spokesman for the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) and the U.S. Northern Command, issued a written statement confirming that the Pentagon has been watching Russian submarines operating in international waters off the coast. ....

    The New York Times quoted unidentified Defense Department officials expressing concern about the unusual patrols but also saying the submarines have not taken any provocative actions. ...
    Last edited by Merlin; 05 Aug 09, at 16:11.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumrunner View Post
    Congrats to the Russian Navy on sending a boat over here that didnt sink, have a meltdown and/or poison it's crew enroute
    "Enroute" is the operative word. :(

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    I expect people will soon be screaming to have the Brunswick Naval Air Station to be kept open.

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    The submarine patrols come as Moscow tries to shake off the embarrassment of the latest failed test of the Bulava missile, a long-range weapon that was test fired from a submarine in the Arctic on July 15. The failed missile test was the sixth since 2005, and some experts see Russia’s assertiveness elsewhere as a gambit by the military to prove its continued relevance.
    So the July Bulava SSBN arctic test hailed as a successful example of deception against the US was actually a failure?

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    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    They have the right to be in international waters just like everyone else.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    They have the right to be in international waters just like everyone else.
    That is true, but this also sends a message, seeing as how they haven't been this close in quite some time...

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    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPrime View Post
    That is true, but this also sends a message, seeing as how they haven't been this close in quite some time...
    True, and I'm sure there were 4 LA classes hanging around for a great chance at an exercise to track Soviet hardware without having to drive all the way over to knock on the door at Murmansk.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    True, and I'm sure there were 4 LA classes hanging around for a great chance at an exercise to track Soviet hardware without having to drive all the way over to knock on the door at Murmansk.
    Not to mention a Seawolf or a Virginia

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    True, and I'm sure there were 4 LA classes hanging around for a great chance at an exercise to track Soviet hardware without having to drive all the way over to knock on the door at Murmansk.
    Sure, probably. I bet they're all having fun pretending it's the Hunt for Red October - Probably why they all got into subs in the first place, post-Cold War!

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    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPrime View Post
    Sure, probably. I bet they're all having fun pretending it's the Hunt for Red October - Probably why they all got into subs in the first place, post-Cold War!
    *Arms race on surface ships and a failed economy.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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    Anyone thats alarmed by this obviously dont know the US does this on a constant basis around the world. Havent you ever seen a naval certificate for operating in the "Bears Lair".
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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    Post counterbalance

    Gentlemen, i think the presence of Russian subs in international water near US boundaries is not alarming, it could be possible that it is their routine patrolling. In my view both countries are well aware of each other activities. So important thing is not to disturb cool environment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by diplomaticview View Post
    Gentlemen, i think the presence of Russian subs in international water near US boundaries is not alarming, it could be possible that it is their routine patrolling. In my view both countries are well aware of each other activities. So important thing is not to disturb cool environment.
    You're right that it's not particularly alarming, but nor is it routine.

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