Littoral Combat Ships

**jlvfr** · 24 Dec 10,, 17:45

Originally Posted by Hoss

SM-2 can be used as an SSM.

But has a small warhead (SSM-wise), it's big and expensive, a waste in that role. I'm trying to build a cheaper combat LCS. Besides the SM-2 is a dedicated long-rang SAM, better suited to DDGs and CGs.

Btw, MERRY XMAS FOR ALL!

**USSWisconsin** · 24 Dec 10,, 19:32

How about an LCS-1 type hull configured as a gunboat/light frigate with 3 x 57mm guns (or even 3" SRF) on centerline and a couple PVLS arrays along side at the back. Alternately she could carry three Goalkeepers fitted with missile boxes on the sides instead with DP fire control arrangements. Aviation would be removed from these variants and this role covered by sister ships in the group. With the Goalkeeper setup there would still be room for amphibious capabilities.

**jlvfr** · 24 Dec 10,, 19:43

Know what the USN really need? This:
Saar 5
Enlarge the hull for greater range, larger hangar and a 76mm on A position, and presto: USS Gunboat ready to hurt stuff.

**USSWisconsin** · 24 Dec 10,, 20:20

Originally Posted by jlvfr

Know what the USN really need? This:
Saar 5
Enlarge the hull for greater range, larger hangar and a 76mm on A position, and presto: USS Gunboat ready to hurt stuff.

How about this, or this. A lot of contemporary patrol boats are going with a configuration similar to the ones you are describing.
http://www.naval-technology.com/proj...t_gallery.html

I think the USN would probably get the job done by adding mission modules to the existing designs. May be an AGS artillery module, or rocket bombardment module? I beleive that on this sized hull, specialization would be needed for this type of mission, at the expense of manned avaition capabilities on that ship (UMAV's would still fit - IMO).

**JRT** · 24 Dec 10,, 20:40

Originally Posted by USSWisconsin

How about an LCS-1 type hull configured as a gunboat/light frigate with 3 x 57mm guns (or even 3" SRF) on centerline and a couple PVLS arrays along side at the back. Alternately she could carry three Goalkeepers fitted with missile boxes on the sides instead with DP fire control arrangements. Aviation would be removed from these variants and this role covered by sister ships in the group. With the Goalkeeper setup there would still be room for amphibious capabilities.

Isn't that one of the planned roles for the DDG-1000 Zumwalt class, to bring AGS, VLS, etc., into the littorals?

**USSWisconsin** · 24 Dec 10,, 20:54

Originally Posted by JRT

Isn't that one of the planned roles for the DDG-1000 Zumwalt class, to bring AGS, VLS, etc., into the littorals?

Not sure when or if the Zumwalts will be commissioned, and aren't they blue water ships? The LCS could go places they couldn't - like up a river or into an estuary.

Looks like only three will be built
http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL32109_20100614.pdf
this would mean one or two operational at any given moment. I beleive there is a better chance of having half a dozen NGFS LCS's in the fleet.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3722533

**JRT** · 24 Dec 10,, 22:23

Originally Posted by USSWisconsin

Not sure when or if the Zumwalts will be commissioned, and aren't they blue water ships? The LCS could go places they couldn't - like up a river or into an estuary.

Looks like only three will be built
http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL32109_20100614.pdf
this would mean one or two operational at any given moment. I beleive there is a better chance of having half a dozen NGFS LCS's in the fleet.
Will DDG 1000 Produce Any Ships at All? - Defense News

To your point, I think the draft is roughly double that exhibited by the two classes of LCS.

But FWIW, at this link the US Navy describes it as being, "Developed under the DD(X) destroyer program, USS Zumwalt (DDG 1000) is the lead ship of a class of next-generation multi-mission destroyers tailored for land attack and littoral dominance."

**USSWisconsin** · 25 Dec 10,, 01:06

Originally Posted by JRT

To your point, I think the draft is roughly double that exhibited by the two classes of LCS.

But FWIW, at this link the US Navy describes it as being, "Developed under the DD(X) destroyer program, USS Zumwalt (DDG 1000) is the lead ship of a class of next-generation multi-mission destroyers tailored for land attack and littoral dominance."

Great link, thanks

I found this, very interesting about the PAM and 30mm modules
ET - default

**jlvfr** · 25 Dec 10,, 11:27

Originally Posted by USSWisconsin

Great link, thanks

I found this, very interesting about the PAM and 30mm modules
ET - default

So, they'll take 2 30mm in adition to the 57? That's a good gun loadout... but I still see no SSMs. When the documents say "small boats" what exactly are they talking about? The kind of high speed boats drug runners use? Are they saying "we will deliberatly send the LCS into a pack of these boats to sink them all"?! 'cause I don't think any ship will survive, say, a dozen of these boats...

**Xtvpry** · 25 Dec 10,, 11:58

Remember that PAM has been cancelled. The two 30 mm Bushmaster cannons depends on whether the ship is equipped with the anti surface warfare module. So as it stands LCS would have to fend off small boat attacks with just the Mk 110 57mm and SeaRam. That means it has nothing to counter enemy Corvettes and nothing for land attack unless you count the FireScouts.

**USSWisconsin** · 25 Dec 10,, 16:25

Originally Posted by Xtvpry

Remember that PAM has been cancelled. The two 30 mm Bushmaster cannons depends on whether the ship is equipped with the anti surface warfare module. So as it stands LCS would have to fend off small boat attacks with just the Mk 110 57mm and SeaRam. That means it has nothing to counter enemy Corvettes and nothing for land attack unless you count the FireScouts.

Thats too bad about PAM - that was what I was thinking of in my NGFS ideas, But I beleive the USN will be flexible about mission packages and continually develop new combinations. Like many other cancelled projects, I suspect this one (PAM) may come back in a more favorable economy.

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**JRT** · 25 Dec 10,, 17:32

Originally Posted by USSWisconsin

Thats too bad about PAM - that was what I was thinking of in my NGFS ideas, But I beleive the USN will be flexible about mission packages and continually develop new combinations. Like many other cancelled projects, I suspect this one (PAM) may come back in a more favorable economy.

We ask new members to introduce themselves by starting a new thread in the member introductions forum and saying hello, typically describing your interests and what you would like to do here.

Here is a survival guide written by a senior member, and wide aclaimed here on the WAB.
http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/mem...val-guide.html

Perhaps we may see another flight of Indy class LCS with VLS in combination with a more capable RADAR system and a maybe a deeper draft center hull for increased displacement. That center hull is near vertical at the waterline (a key design aspect in that trimaran hull), so extending draft depth there should not be difficult, and it wouldn't affect waterline on the outer hulls. Increased draft would shave off a little top speed, and both speed and shallow draft are key aspects of LCS, but it might be a useful tradeoff for the capabilities gained.

**jlvfr** · 25 Dec 10,, 19:02

Anyone wanna bet the LCS with grow to 6k+ tons in the next 10 years?...

**Xtvpry** · 26 Dec 10,, 08:18

The LCS will not grow to 6k tonnes in 10 years or anything like it. That is not what the Navy wants.

You have not understood what the LCS is all about. It is not nor never will it be, a surrogate blue water Cruiser.

**jlvfr** · 26 Dec 10,, 11:51

Originally Posted by Xtvpry

The LCS will not grow to 6k tonnes in 10 years or anything like it. That is not what the Navy wants.

You have not understood what the LCS is all about. It is not nor never will it be, a surrogate blue water Cruiser.

I know what they are saying, but I also hear/read talks of "moar guns, moar room, moar systems, gief SM-2 VLS, etc, etc, etc.."...